Why are they called Wotan's knots?

[Michael Fay]

Hello. I have read a few books and searched this site for info and have not found an answer to : why are the designs on SS and Polizei sword/Degan scabbards called Wotan Knots/Wotan's knots?
Is it actually named after the Germanic god Wotan (Odin, woden, wons, Othinn)? And why? Is it as a copying of an old Viking style of weapon decoration known as "Jelling"style Where can I find some scholarly citations as to the SS and Polizei design being named after Wotan and especially why?
I am writing an essay in a history class and could use a lead on Why this name was used.
Thanks, MF.

[Michael Fay]

polizei Wotan knot design on scabbard

Maybe I am the only person who cares about this kind of question? Anyway here is my example of: the Polizei scabbard wotan knot.
Next photo will show a viking carved example
--MF

[Michael Fay]

viking carved knots

This is an 8th century picture stone, showing a scene from Valhalla, from Lillbjaro, Gotland.
Look at the knot styles on the side s of the carving and in the stylized waves.
Is this where the Wotan's knot motif comes from?
---MF

[SvenWittnebel]

Hi,

I'm in no way a collector of Portepees (French origin, in German also called Faustriemen), but these knots were originally lanyards and became later in Germany also a sign of a military rank.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portepee
http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Portepee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanyard

In this context I never heard anything like Wotans knot, but Google.de give a plausible answer I think.
There was an amulet with a symbol called Wotans knot surrounded by runes.

http://www.vinland-shop.de/produkt/?id=258&kt=2&sk=8

The three triangulars are a symbol of the three realms of the past, present and future, their nine lines symbolize the nine worlds of the nordic mythology.
All symbols entwined are the so-called Wotans knot who is a symbol of karma and the power of Wotan and it shall give the bearer any luck he need in a battle.

So I think it's just a nickname for the swords lanyards.

[Michael Fay]

wotan's knot

Hello Sven, thanks for contributing. I don't mean the lanyard-- I actually mean the silver metal decorative (curving and weaving) knot forms near the mouth of the scabbard. If you look at the 8th cent. carving you can see the very similar designs.
As for the modern day Heidnisch pagan web site's Valkknot/Odin's knot---what they are basing their design on--may also be what the SS and polizei scabbards are based on.
Does any one know for sure?

[SvenWittnebel]

Michael, I know what You mean, but I think the ornaments on the scabbarts were all misinterpreted as a so-called Wotans knot. Why? Because I had searched for it with Google and found the Wotansknoten on German sites related to nordic mythology and their symbols (the amulets) and then many different US-forums of edged weapon collectors...
The edged weapon collectors presents many different ornaments as "the" Wotans knot, but many of these ornaments are really nothing like a knot.
But the Portepees were knoted to the edged weapons.

[Michael Fay]

wotan's knot

Hello Sven, In my experience here in the USA, militaria collector types don't usually borrow terms and ideas from the Heidnischen /pagan communities: especially if there is no basis in fact. So I still think there is a story here-one way or another.
The RAD hewer scabbard is a "softer" slightly more Celtic looking design. I don't know that it is related to the SS/polizei's so called Wotan knot. But The viking style (as stated in Gwyn Jones. "A History of the Vikings." p.335) The viking Jelling style has been said to owe much to Irish(ie Hiberno-Saxon), Anglo-Saxon, and eastern art...and native Scandinavian traditions. Another similar viking style was called "Ringerike."
Rember, the SS and Sa dagger shape was based purposely on a medieval hunting knife that in turn was based on an carved representation of a German warrior on the Roman empire's Trajan column.
With Himmler's great delight with such romantic history touches, it is not hard to imagine him personally approving such ancient designs for the swords scabbards.
---MF

[Robin Lumsden]

The Wotan's Knot is actually the feature at the clip end of the M36 SS dagger chains.............not the feature on the sword fittings.

[SvenWittnebel]

You mean this square with the knot-like corners?



OK, then the German Wotansknoten and the English Wotans Knot are totally differend things.

[Robin Lumsden]

That's the one.

My understanding of this is that it was the Germanic equivalent of the Gordian Knot.

[Michael Fay]

wotan knot

Hello Sven an Robin. Thanks for the clarification. However,as the Chained daggers wotans knot is designed the same--it is still a very similar design.

Here is a copy and paste taken today(4-15-07) from WITTMANN MILITARIA where he is calling the scabbard fitting as a Wotan knot:
"The nickel upper scabbard fitting matches exactly the patination of the hilt. This fitting has excellent black darkening within the Wotan knot weave, being about 95%. It is retained by two domehead nickel screws in the obverse and reverse of the lower curl section. As mentioned above, the throat is SS proofed. This is a great sword for the “purest”... "

Wittmann uses this term on both SS and Police sword scabbards as can be seen today on his site.

So some dealers do call it a Wotan's knot. Whether they are correct in doing so....I do not have an answer to. But what I really want to know is................
why do they call it that?
Sincerely, MF