Heer Artillerie M40 cap for discussion

[Mike Davis]

A cap currently being offered by me on VirtualGrenadier is being questioned in the following thread - see posts #13 and 14:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post6206475


This is the sales listing:

http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=2351


The point of contention has to do with the method of attachment of the soutache, being done in a fashion not normally accepted by this maker.

For the record, i stand by the sales description and believe the application period done.

I purchased the cap directly from a junk shop in Atlanta around 1978-79 in the same condition as it is today. Included here are some scans of photos made of the cap in the early '80s - apologies for the poor quality.

[Mike Davis]

So, why do I believe the application original? Other than the fact that I bought the cap from a seller who would not have been sophisticated enough to really understand the cap, much less perform any deceptive alteration, direct observation does not show any sign of it having been disturbed postwar.

Included here are a few detailed shots showing method of attachment at point where soutache meets visor.

[Mark Gibson]

Mike,

It's not a soutache application that I would be satisfied with for this maker as Schlesische Mutzenfabrik factory applied soutaches did not pass between the bill and the body. I would also expect to see all thread used to attach both the bill, body and liner together to pass through the soutache if factory applied. I have seen and do have caps with post factory period applied soutache but these are generally applied with thread for the soutache passing through the whole cap and visible in the liner.

Mark

[Mike Davis]

The other side

[Mike Davis]

Additional photos showing stitching of lining at front seam and at one side. I see no sign whatever of any disturbance.

I'm happy to make any other photos that might be needed and welcome relevant observations.

[RGD51]

Mark is quite right and confirms what I said in an earlier post. This red art'y soutache has been hand applied without disturbing the visor. They tried to get the stitch length right but, as you can see, they didn't....though its an admirable job! You can see the holes where the original soutache was in the cap body.
This newer soutache was added by snipping a couple of threads near the visor, pushing the soutache in and then carefully handstitching up the cockade and down the other side. Olive thread was then used to make it look original to the piece but they still missed a row of stitching....oops!

I still like the cap though, you seldom see the Frankenstein stamp as clear as this one.

Robt.

[Mike Davis]

Mike,

It's not a soutache application that I would be satisfied with for this maker as Schlesische Mutzenfabrik factory applied soutaches did not pass between the bill and the body. I would also expect to see all thread used to attach both the bill, body and liner together to pass through the soutache if factory applied. I have seen and do have caps with post factory period applied soutache but these are generally applied with thread for the soutache passing through the whole cap and visible in the liner.

Mark

I understand Mark, as in the case of the Nachrichten cap I sold you here:

http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=1338

But the Artillerie cap is not done that way and I see no sign of postwar alteration.

[John Hodgin]

Soutasche application aside, your photography has improved to professional status! Nice detail shots Mike!

[Mike Davis]

Mark is quite right and confirms what I said in an earlier post. This red art'y soutache has been hand applied without disturbing the visor. They tried to get the stitch length right but, as you can see, they didn't....though its an admirable job! You can see the holes where the original soutache was in the cap body.
This newer soutache was added by snipping a couple of threads near the visor, pushing the soutache in and then carefully handstitching up the cockade and down the other side. Olive thread was then used to make it look original to the piece but they still missed a row of stitching....oops!

I still like the cap though, you seldom see the Frankenstein stamp as clear as this one.

Robt.

Try as I might, and they may be there, but I can't see the 'holes where the original soutache was in the cap body'. If I am following your theory correctly I don't understand how the soutache could have been machine sewn to the front of the cap - and it surely is. And if someone had been so careful to simulate the machine stitching over the soutache, would they not have been bright enough to sew over the second row of stitching? The fact remains that this cap has not been altered since I first saw it almost 35 years ago. There must be another explanation. Here are some new shots that may be a little clearer.

[NZMark]

Basic cap is perfect, as you know, Mike.
Can you take a look at the cap and see if the small points I've marked are in fact the original soutache slits?
The basic cap colour is nicely faded - the colour of the soutache is quite strong in comparison - but I won't condemn it as a post-war application yet.
Regards (& Seasons Greetings!)
Mark
NZ

[NZMark]

Mike - we posted at the same time, it appears.
The new images are much sharper - and I see that what I took to be the soutache tucking cuts in the cap body are indeed not so?
Also a logical point - why simulate the lower stitching but leave the upper blank as an obvious 'tell'? (Let alone explaining having an absolute perfect thread match to that lower sewing).
Regards,
Mark
NZ

[RGD51]

The hole is covered by the soutache on the right side but is visible on the left--its a small frayed area right over the second line of stitching. That line of olive stitching should have gone over the soutache. If you know the Schlesische product--you know right where to look.

Robt.

Thanks for the pix! Also, if machine applied --how'd they do it without removing the visor?

[Mike Davis]

OK gents, I see the indicated areas now - thanks. I will try to get some better shots with a new USB microscope when I have a bit more time.

[afrikasandman]

I see the points but then it really throws the whole cap into question as you wouldn't be able to see the soutache like that without opening up the lining. So do we have a period done cap that they swapped out the soutache and went way overboard on or is it a crazy super fake? I like the base cap but the thread on the bottom that holds the soutache looks to match the other thread on my iPhone..... Interesting cap for sure. Matt

[NZMark]

Hi Robert,
I do indeed know Schlesische caps, having owned/own examples - and know exactly what and where to look...
Matt - the basic cap is 100% original....
Regards,
Mark
NZ