SS m43 caps with printed traps

[galizien41]

Just wondering, as I have seen the wool trapezoid and the bevo but never the printed before? Any one else have ones to show. These are for sale on the estand, and I am just curious...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=687092

[Lenny W]

Is that chocolate brown bias material I see ?

[RobertE]

Yes Lenny, it is the same color bias tape as all of these have. 100 percent good for these type caps.

s/f Robert

[Lenny W]

Yes Lenny, it is the same color bias tape as all of these have. 100 percent good for these type caps.

s/f Robert

All the caps with that type of bias material have been post war fakes most prominent on fake panzer m-43 caps ,I don't see pictures of the green example in your sales advert ,does it have the same bias material as well ?

[RobertE]

I'll check it when I get home, though I think I already posted pictures of both bias on the WAF. Regardless of whether it is dark brown, grey, or white, it is the same type as appears in all these caps.

These caps are nothing like anything else in materials, cut, or style. They are thicker wool, not the thin Dachau style, all have printed traps and cardboard underbills, single large button, and longer side pulldowns. The liners are scrap liner materials from SS tunics and other cap styles.

Are you saying you don't believe these print-trap M-43s are original? I thought the collector community had moved beyond that, like the printed arm eagles that some were loudly against but then evaporated when a picture was posted last year.

If you are proposing these caps are post-war, and that is the position as of August 2013 of the broader community, then I'll pull these from sale. Again, I know senior forum members were looking for these in the past after the last few rounds of discussion - they are hard as hell to find.

regards, Robert

[RobertE]

Lenny, here's a previous thread with some shots of the bias tape on my green M43, as well as another green M43 posted for discussion. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ted+m43&page=2

Notice the pulldowns on both M43s. They are made of that odd mottled material (non-police) that was featured in the last late war M44 tunic I posted in the armpit area. Typical of these caps - they are made from left-overs from other SS production efforts.

I also posted some pictures of grey and black bias tape in caps vetted by the forum - as you know from being an M43 collector, they came in all shades.

A characteristic of these printed-trap M43's is the bias tape is not folded, just inserted into the seam during sewing with a raw edge out.

s/f Robert

[90th Light]

Do not let anyone tell you that an M43 cap is bad just because it has "beige/brown" coloured bias material.

The prejudice against "biege/ brown" bias is a collector myth which has entered certain circles like a "Chinese Whisper". Of course some fakers have used "biege/ brown bias material. But it was used first by several period manufacturers of M43 caps and has thus been copied from originals made before May 1945.

Why would the makers of M43 caps before May 1945 not use brown ? If it was on hand and avaliable then why would it not have been used ??? There was a war going on after all not a quality control fashion show.

This myth is based on what someone told someone, who told someone, who then told someone else and they went on to tell another someone.

The problem is that no-one can tell you where this so called "rule of thumb" came from or who started it. However, it gets repeated in certain circles like parrots having a get together.

But enough talk, why do we not put it to the test and post our M43 caps with their bias material shown. Finally we would be doing something scientific and see if this "collector folklore" is true or not,

Chris

[Panzergrenadiere71]

Do not let anyone tell you that an M43 cap is bad just because it has "beige/brown" coloured bias material.

The prejudice against "biege/ brown" bias is a collector myth which has entered certain circles like a "Chinese Whisper". Of course some fakers have used "biege/ brown bias material. But it was used first by several period manufacturers of M43 caps and has thus been copied from originals made before May 1945.

Why would the makers of M43 caps before May 1945 not use brown ? If it was on hand and avaliable then why would it not have been used ??? There was a war going on after all not a quality control fashion show.

This myth is based on what someone told someone, who told someone, who then told someone else and they went on to tell another someone.

The problem is that no-one can tell you where this so called "rule of thumb" came from or who started it. However, it gets repeated in certain circles like parrots having a get together.

But enough talk, why do we not put it to the test and post our M43 caps with their bias material shown. Finally we would be doing something scientific and see if this "collector folklore" is true or not,

Chris

I agree.The color and the texture of the bias material is not a red flag itself IMO.
Maybe Lenny has seen something else he doesn't like.

[90th Light]

I agree.The color and the texture of the bias material is not a red flag itself IMO.
Maybe Lenny has seen something else he doesn't like.

Maybe Panzergrenadiere71, may be not

but I quote directly;

All the caps with that type of bias material have been post war fakes

It is very broad, pointed and direct.

Would be very interesting to put it to the test. Thus let's post our caps, where they came from and show the bias material in them. That way we would finally have a bit of real analysis rather than a recital of myth,

Chris