Panzer Overseas Cap for Review

[RobertE]

Hello Folks,

Is this a good overseas cap? With the scary-good replicas around, I wanted to check with our cap gurus.

regards, Robert

[RobertE]

2

[panzer224]

Although I am still learning what I can say is that I think the stitching on the eagle may be hand sewn. Possibly a replaced piece?

[derka]

more pics are needed to confirm it or not,
but my first impression is
among other things, those insignias were adopted in june 1940.
derka

[LuckyStrike23]

I have a bad feeling as well - at least insignia is replaced and soutache is not original imo.

[RobertE]

Thanks guys. The soustache and cap assembly seemed OK, but the green-hued bird being introduced later than the cap was produced is a stinker.

regards, Robert

[derka]

Thanks guys. The soustache and cap assembly seemed OK, but the green-hued bird being introduced later than the cap was produced is a stinker.

regards, Robert

cockade as eagle with this pattern were oficialy introduced june 4th, 1940 (HVBl, Teil B, Ziff 337).
any chance to see inside wiews of lining, grommets, and eagle stiching and soutache departure at the reverse of the flap ?
derka

[RobertE]

No, these are all the photos available.

[derka]

No, these are all the photos available.

Robert, i'm certainly not a "cap's guru" acording your own words,
but if it is not possible to have more pics from the actual owner of this sidecap,
then it would be wise not to try to purchase it in such conditions.
just my opinion of course.
derka

[helmutderpa]

It seems that the internal sweat band is missing.
That's a give away for a Heer overseas cap.

[derka]

It seems that the internal sweat band is missing.
That's a give away for a Heer overseas cap.

no, that's a giveway for a fully regular issued Heer EM overseas cap.

[90th Light]

This thread raises some interesting questions about M34 sidecaps that to date have not been answered.

1/ did some manufacturers make the parts of a cap as components and put them in bins at the factory until they were used up ? What I am asking is was the liner in this cap made and stamped in 1939 then sat in a bin until it was assembled into a cap in 1940

2/ did all manufacturers put the internal band inside these caps ? Are there some caps which have the internal band but it has not been stitched all the way around the circumference of the cap at the top of the internal band

We make sweeping generalisations which appear to be "rules of thumb" about these caps. How accurate are these, and how much quantative study exists to back up the qualitative theory. There are production variations between different manufacturer's and sometimes variation with the one manufacturer's caps because of the use of sub-contractors.

I would like to see or handle more caps by this particular maker before I made a decision one way or the other. This is not a manufacturer that I have seen before,

Chris

p.s a nice clear shot of the front and back of the grommets would help

[RGD51]

Fieldcaps were done as piece work. Visualize a large room of a factory with rows of machines with tailors all performing a certain function of the cut and sew process. The more difficult jobs were done by mutzenmeisters or tailors more accomplished on certain machines such as zig-zag (for sweatband/visors) or maybe rendering crowns and the finishing final perimeter stitch at the bottom of the cap. Old school tailors believed in hand basting too so nothing was left to chance when the various parts went to the machine workers for assembly.

I think your first 2 points could be given a 'yes' however, that second row of stitching you see inside, on some field caps, has nothing to do with securing the internal mesh or bias tape that keeps a hat from changing size when the bottom is done. Bear in mind that caps are made from the inside out...there is stitching you can not see unless you were to dissect. And different makers had different ways of doing crowns and bottom edges....there was no one right way in particular.

Despite a pretty appearance, my gut vibe is not so good on this cap...unfamiliar with maker, overall newness, and if that soutache is 'silk' I would have some doubts. More revealing pix would be helpful.

Robert

[90th Light]

Fieldcaps were done as piece work. Visualize a large room of a factory with rows of machines with tailors all performing a certain function of the cut and sew process. The more difficult jobs were done by mutzenmeisters or tailors more accomplished on certain machines such as zig-zag (for sweatband/visors) or maybe rendering crowns and the finishing final perimeter stitch at the bottom of the cap. Old school tailors believed in hand basting too so nothing was left to chance when the various parts went to the machine workers for assembly.

I think your first 2 points could be given a 'yes' however, that second row of stitching you see inside, on some field caps, has nothing to do with securing the internal mesh or bias tape that keeps a hat from changing size when the bottom is done. Bear in mind that caps are made from the inside out...there is stitching you can not see unless you were to dissect. And different makers had different ways of doing crowns and bottom edges....there was no one right way in particular.

Despite a pretty appearance, my gut vibe is not so good on this cap...unfamiliar with maker, overall newness, and if that soutache is 'silk' I would have some doubts. More revealing pix would be helpful.

Robert

Excellent post. You know your science Robert and this gives me food for thought.

Many thanks,

Chris