SS M43 Panzer Cap

[90th Light]

Rumour is im doing it tomorrow.

Finally an overview of the insides of the 4 caps.

Thanks for posting ebony,

Chris

p.s. and given the number of views, I think I might just have everyones attention by now. Again thank you for the kind emails and phone calls of support about this.

[ebony]

1 NZ veteran brought back from Austria 1945

[ebony]

2 NZ veteran brought back from depot near Trieste 1945.

Have place a piece of paper over some very interesting information in this cap which I would not want fakers getting their hands on

[ebony]

3 Traced back as far as 1971, veteran donation to a museum

[ebony]

4 Purchased from a veteran in a motel buy

[Lenny W]

the pics in posts #231 & 234 have a chance but i do not like the HBT lined caps,may i ask what color is the bias material is on the black panzer cap ?

[90th Light]

A real break through in all of this has happened for me too. Since posting the outsides of the caps, I contacted the family of the veteran who I got the cap from shown in post number 232 "2 NZ veteran brought back from a depot near Trieste 1945" to see if I could find out more about where their father was exactly in May 1945.

To my delight they referred me to two publications they had received which former veterans and members of their fathers NZEF unit have written. One published in 2004 and revised 2006, the other published in 2008.

The result is that I now have day by day detailed accounts of what was going on during the rush to Trieste, the surrender and the drive on after that. This is an absolutely fascinating piece of history and many reading this may not realise that the NZ troops put up the first wall in what was to become the "Cold War" and divided Trieste into east and west between Titos communist partisians and 2nd NZEF for the allies of the free world.

In one publication is a detailed account of the surrender to the 2nd NZEF of various SS and Police units plus sadly their systematic murder after they were then handed over to Titos forces as part of the agreement regarding the division of the city. A decision to this day that many who were there still question the wisdom of. They did after all surrender to the New Zealanders and were technically their prisoners of war. Also keep in mind that the SS had not been declared an illegal organisation at that stage and was still a legitimate German unit. The other publication has a complete listing of all SS units encountered, overun or taken prisoner by the New Zealanders at that time. Something I have been after for a long time. This combined with the information inside the cap and where it was found has given me real understanding of how that cap was being supplied to SS troops fighting in Northern Italy in 1945

I can not express enough thanks to those returned NZ soldiers who found it in their hearts to tell their story before it was gone forever and give the cap shown in post 232 its rightful place in the real history of WW2,

Chris

[90th Light]

the pics in posts #231 & 234 have a chance but i do not like the HBT lined caps,may i ask what color is the bias material is on the black panzer cap ?

Very hard to see Lenny because you really have to fold it back and it is sewn in tight but I would call it a cross between dark grey/ dark navy blue.

Night time here now so I will have another look in the daylight tomorrow

Chris

[alexandre]

Lenny,

The 232 cap is made with the same HBT lining found of the Dachau cap..
So the lining itself can't be considered like odd...but maybe you have noticed some others disturbing details on this one?
Personaly, I like it, or...from the pics I can't find a fault on this one.

The Panzer cap is fore sure disturbing and very close if not identical
to many PZ cap considered like fake on the market...
Here again, I would not bought it myself...but I can't see a real red flag with this one....

I like the 2 others caps, especially the Italian gabardine made, with early
brown lining used occasionaly in the late war cap (old stock or recycled material?)

So, IMO, we have all wait those inside shot, but we don't know really more.
A hand in inspection could do...and eventually believe the source.

[alexandre]

About the Panzer cap, the fact the front flap bias is not visible from the outside (necessary to fold strongly the wool to see it) is a good sign IMO.
Since this bias is considered like a good sign of authenticity by the collector's (it is not really...), the fakers tend to show it with ridiculous exageration....

Sorry for my bad english..I hope, you will understand what I mean

[Richard P]

Every one of the caps has legitimate WWII period used materials in their linings. Cotton denim, two styles of what may be Italian HBT pattern rayon, and a probable German produced appearing rayon. I have seen a couple of original black SS panzer caps with HBT lining, including one that was picked up for $300.00 after this forum trashed it. It only resembled the fakes with the HBT lining because of the photos. It was purchased by a 30 year SS collector after the member returned it to the dealer. It was sold for the price of the real trap.

Richard

[B. N. Singer]

the pics in posts #231 & 234 have a chance but i do not like the HBT lined caps,may i ask what color is the bias material is on the black panzer cap ?

Disagree, IMHO from the previous and additional pictures, post #230 is the ONLY piece I am comfortable with as being Original.

B. N. Singer

[Rick C]

Can you explain 'why' (in detail) or are we to simply accept your professed "humble opinion" as definitive?

[alexandre]

Can you explain 'why' (in detail) or are we to simply accept your professed "humble opinion" as definitive?

Rick,

I think, we (humble collector's) have just to accept THE humble opinion.
Forget the details....just trust !!

[90th Light]

Disagree, IMHO from the previous and additional pictures, post #230 is the ONLY piece I am comfortable with as being Original.

B. N. Singer

alexandre I think you mean Rick not me but did we expect any different ?

Predictable same old again/ again,

Chris