The Superfakes: The Triple Serial #s

[stonemint]

Here is what is wierd--the sweat band is actually made of 3 strips of leather, and fitted together so that the seams are almost undetectable from the obverse:

[stonemint]

Reverse:

[stonemint]

Here is the interior of Kurts alteste--note the same style Stirndruckfrei feature, but a celluloid s/d:

[stonemint]

One of the rare uses of all bullion on an Alteste:

[stonemint]

Here is another one. Note that this one has a buckram stiffener and silk lining, but uses the same type of stirndruckfrei feature. However, the pasteboard appears to be untreated. Note the hand-stitching of the s/b to the body of the cap:

[stonemint]

I must say these early Altestes are light-years ahead of the later ones, and all 3 are different in their own way. They obviously did use Mutzenmeisters to make these babies. Hopefully, more will pop up in the future for additional reference.

[billbert]

If these are FOR SURE post war manufactured they are simply AMAZING!!!Billbert

[JackHyv]

...I would even say - "frightening" - I would have been fooled...

Jack

[Kreager]

This is a great wrtie-up Stonemint. This will definitely save some members alot of grief down the road.

[PMan]

2 Police Hats

As promised, I figured out the mystery of the superfakes--what I call the Triple Serial #s, for the 3 sets of serial #s on the inside of the S/B.

I would once again like to thank Bob Hritz for his generosity in lending me his Feldgendarmerie visor for study, and Derek for raising this issue in the first place.

First of all, guess the fake:

Both are obvious fakes

[stonemint]

Both are obvious fakes

Nice try at flaming, and another positive contribution to the forum. Since they are so obvious, there is one for sale on a dealers site--tell us which one it is. As far as my hat is concerned, it was posted here along with the matching greatcoat (made by the same tailor) several months ago--didn't see you pipe up then,
nor when Derek started the "Numerical Markings" thread.
We knew they were fakes, but we didn't know the maker--so why didn't you tell us all the mystery maker back then, since it was "so obvious"?

With all due respect, after you started a thread several weeks ago wondering what a wreath was in your collection (an "obvious" Postschutz wreath), I have to take your comments with a grain of salt.
Try contributing instead of trying to tear down for once.

[Bob Hritz]

...I would even say - "frightening" - I would have been fooled...

Jack

Hello Jack,

When I bought the police hat, I certainly WAS fooled. I have kept it for a study piece as there are always going to be newer and better fakes as well as the 'Frankenstein' remakes of original hats. If these old Alteste hats were carefully redone, they would probably fool most collectors.

The sweatband numbers always concerned me and the 'old timers' (yes, there are a few older than I am) I asked all felt they were spurious, immediate post-war hats made from original materials and using whatever post war materials that were missing from wartime stocks. It is not impossible to find wartine hats that were partially unfinished and had been completed for the post-war trade in war souvenirs.

Bob Hritz

[derek]

A good follow up Chris. I wish I could add some details but I was never able to really track much down on these. As Bob says many old collectors, (yes, I'm one too), thought they were dodgy. I had surmised, rightly or wrongly, that they were of 1960 vintage.
Here are some images of an SS cavalry cap.I suspect that this hat was made during that earlier period and then the spurious RZM tag was added at a later date.
Derek

[derek]

[derek]

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