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    #76
    Just for those I might have confused on the kleiderkasse/contract thing here is a little breakdown of common differences. Now not all of this is not absolute there are always exceptions but here are the more common traits.


    SS kleiderkasse SS contract
    Linings : silk/rayon , cotton
    Shields : Rhomboid , diamond
    Shield materials: regular cello , thin cello
    Sweatbands: leather , leather substitutes
    Markings: None , black size stamps
    Exterior materials: both wool and trikot, both wool and trikot


    Then the biggest one Kleiderkasse = officers kleiderkasse, hence OFFICERS. Contract caps are ALL EM/NCO
    Last edited by NTZ; 02-17-2008, 04:01 PM.

    Comment

      #77
      Thanks Nick for the info. So really the regulation-grade trikot vs. doeskin, eskimo and everything else rule that differentiates contract caps from private purchase/Extramutzen caps might no longer be true?

      Does the above only apply to SS caps?

      Comment

        #78
        Originally posted by Koguryo9 View Post
        Does the above only apply to SS caps?
        Yes, SS contract caps can certainly be found in wool. As to grades of wool no. Just the standard grade used at the time.

        This is a contract cap
        Attached Files

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          #79
          Originally posted by NTZ View Post
          Yes, SS contract caps can certainly be found in wool. As to grades of wool no. Just the standard grade used at the time.
          Nick when you say "wool", do you mean anything except trikot? And I suppose those SS contract caps that are made of "wool" are made of the coarse, felt-like wool, but never doeskin etc?

          Comment

            #80
            Originally posted by Koguryo9 View Post
            Nick when you say "wool", do you mean anything except trikot? And I suppose those SS contract caps that are made of "wool" are made of the coarse, felt-like wool, but never doeskin etc?
            We are getting way off track. This is for another thread but saying a SS contact cap should always have coarse wool is FALSE. Not everything in Wilkins book is 100% correct.

            Comment

              #81
              One more thing, Nick: According to Wilkins' book, officers could also purchase directly from "government stock(contract?)" through the kleiderkass.

              Sorry for getting a little technical. This is where it gets confusing for me. It seemed that they could use the kleiderkass system to purchase "private purchase" caps from outside sellers (option 3, page 218 of the Wilkins book), or they could purchase directly from the kleiderkasse catalog (option 1, page 217) or from one of the kleiderkasse sales offices (option 2, page 217). Were caps purchased through Option 1 and 2 considered "private purchase", especially for Option 2? I mean did the kleiderkasse order from certain cap makers before hand and stock their sales offices with these caps, expecting officers would come and buy them?

              Sorry for sidetracking this discussion. :-p

              Comment

                #82
                Originally posted by Koguryo9 View Post
                One more thing, Nick: According to Wilkins' book, officers could also purchase directly from "government stock(contract?)" through the kleiderkass.
                That is what a kleiderkasse visor is. A private purchase visor sold through the officers kleiderkasse. There is no such thing as an officers contract cap.

                Comment

                  #83
                  " how on earth would you be able to identify a cap made at this time. "

                  When you make a statement like this and then another backs it up. It tells me that they absolutely cant tell so it is a waste of time debating it. As I said before supposing something is fake means little and so far nothing except gut feelings are working hard to debunk a cap that is made correctly but just has some odd cloth liner.

                  Comment

                    #84
                    Contract Cap

                    Originally posted by NTZ View Post
                    Yes, SS contract caps can certainly be found in wool. As to grades of wool no. Just the standard grade used at the time.

                    This is a contract cap
                    Can we see the inside of this cap?
                    Thank you, Peter

                    Comment

                      #85
                      Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post
                      Can we see the inside of this cap?
                      Thank you, Peter
                      You did post #57 I think.

                      Comment

                        #86
                        Originally posted by John Pic View Post
                        " how on earth would you be able to identify a cap made at this time. "

                        When you make a statement like this and then another backs it up. It tells me that they absolutely cant tell so it is a waste of time debating it. As I said before supposing something is fake means little and so far nothing except gut feelings are working hard to debunk a cap that is made correctly but just has some odd cloth liner.
                        Back to the cap in hand after a big sidetrack. Without it in hand I can’t tell you if it is a good one or bad one. I admit that. Sometimes a gut feel is all you have to go on. I am sure you have been there before. Personally if I were buying one of there rarest caps out there, not only color piped but a color piped EM/NCO PZ it better be 10000% textbook. If there is one single thing that needs explaining (let alone a hand full) I am out of there but hey that is just me.

                        Comment

                          #87
                          Pink Piped

                          Originally posted by NTZ View Post
                          Back to the cap in hand after a big sidetrack. Without it in hand I can’t tell you if it is a good one or bad one. I admit that. Sometimes a gut feel is all you have to go on. I am sure you have been there before. Personally if I were buying one of there rarest caps out there, not only color piped but a color piped EM/NCO PZ it better be 10000% textbook. If there is one single thing that needs explaining (let alone a hand full) I am out of there but hey that is just me.
                          I wouldn't own a pink piped ss hat unless it came right from the vet.(period)!
                          Peter

                          Comment

                            #88
                            Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post
                            I wouldn't own a pink piped ss hat unless it came right from the vet.(period)!
                            Peter
                            I agree, I would still grill him about where he got it.

                            Comment

                              #89
                              Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post
                              I see. I just remember places like WWII Products that offered allgemeine SS officer caps. They were pretty poor, fuzzy wool, etc. It was my impression that even during the late 60's and 70's, repro hats were just that. Poor copies. Sure a lot of people were fooled, but who cared really, original hats were $35-$250 tops. Its hard to believe that attention to detail existed, especially in the 1950's??? I can tell you for sure that if you ran an ad back then, you'd be busy day and night picking up all real items from vets. Why would you bother with anything else.
                              Peter
                              Here Peter, this is for you. 1960's vintage. Sorry but I don't see the poor fuzzy wool on this one. Trust me, quality 50's, 60's & 70's fakes do exist. The problem is that some except them as real.
                              Attached Files

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                                #90
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