SS Panzer NCO Cap

[Koguryo9]

There is some exposed stiching but it's just where the sewing machine wavered a bit.

Does this (wild and irregular stiching) concern anybody? I remember reading that German craftsmanship was superb throughout the war, even on very late war caps.

[NTZ]

[
Does this (wild and irregular stiching) concern anybody? I remember reading that German craftsmanship was superb throughout the war, even on very late war caps.

On a contract cap no! Those were slapped together as fast as they can and you do see things like this. On a private purchase it is not a good sign IMHO.

[BenVK]

Hi Ben, what do you mean by "the underside of the peak"?

This.

[PMan]

Early Post War

Yes, the name Dr Breuer (Alteste) comes to mind as one. His early stuff (1950's) were made of 90% period parts and materials. Most did not have the Alteste logo we all know and love. They used real cello sheilds, real visors, period materials, etc. In fact Breuer bought out the remaining stock from the defunct August Muller Co. Now I have seen other older fakes that were not made by him but similar. I would venture to say they were made around the same time. I am pretty certain he was not the only one making visors early on.

I see. I just remember places like WWII Products that offered allgemeine SS officer caps. They were pretty poor, fuzzy wool, etc. It was my impression that even during the late 60's and 70's, repro hats were just that. Poor copies. Sure a lot of people were fooled, but who cared really, original hats were $35-$250 tops. Its hard to believe that attention to detail existed, especially in the 1950's??? I can tell you for sure that if you ran an ad back then, you'd be busy day and night picking up all real items from vets. Why would you bother with anything else.
Peter

[Koguryo9]

Yes, the name Dr Breuer (Alteste) comes to mind as one. His early stuff (1950's) were made of 90% period parts and materials. Most did not have the Alteste logo we all know and love.

Nick, after reading the thread on Alteste caps that stonemint started, my impression was Alteste caps did have the Alteste... BERLIN... marking printed on the sweatshield originally but some people took those sweatshields off therefore made them look like period pieces. Is that not correct?

So many Alteste caps were actually made with no marking at all on the sweatshield? Thanks.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well maybe

It might answer it's own question. It was cheaper to use already made real parts back in the day than newly mfg. fake parts. It makes sense, grab all the remaining parts you can find for cheap, a couple of hat makers and start slapping them together. Not to fool anybody just to sell'em cheap and fast. They may not have had any intent of blowing the minds of future collectors.

[NTZ]

I see. I just remember places like WWII Products that offered allgemeine SS officer caps. They were pretty poor, fuzzy wool, etc. It was my impression that even during the late 60's and 70's, repro hats were just that. Poor copies. Sure a lot of people were fooled, but who cared really, original hats were $35-$250 tops. Its hard to believe that attention to detail existed, especially in the 1950's??? I can tell you for sure that if you ran an ad back then, you'd be busy day and night picking up all real items from vets. Why would you bother with anything else.
Peter

From everything I have learned, seen, looked at and was tought by leaders in the visor field the inferior older fakes is a pure myth. Yes there were some piss poor ones that couldn’t fool anyone but there were also very good ones. We know for a fact Alteste’s were being made as early as the mid 1950’s. Have you ever examined and early one? They are very good. Look in some old Alteste threads I have posted many. Early visor by Michael Janke were very good. It was only until he went into mass production and blew though all his period materials that they got to be the ones we mostly see.

[Koguryo9]

Also Nick, is it possible some contract caps were indeed made using non-regulation (reddish brown) linings, such as grey lining in the case of the cap you posted?

[NTZ]

Nick, after reading the thread on Alteste caps that stonemint started, my impression was Alteste caps did have the Alteste... BERLIN... marking printed on the sweatshield originally but some people took those sweatshields off therefore made them look like period pieces. Is that not correct?

So many Alteste caps were actually made with no marking at all on the sweatshield? Thanks.

No, some were made without the Alteste markings and used diamond sheilds. I have some pics I will see if I can find them but that is for another thread.

[BenVK]

Peter, I don't think it's a case of why would you bother. There would have been plenty of ex TR milliners around in early post war Germany, plenty of original material and plenty of souvenir hungry occupation troops so why wouldn't you bother? This is the period that really scares me, how on earth would you be able to identify a cap made at this time.

[NTZ]

Also Nick, is it possible some contract caps were indeed made using non-regulation (reddish brown) linings, such as grey lining in the case of the cap you posted?

Yes! The one I posted IMO is a contract cap.

[NTZ]

Peter, I don't think it's a case of why would you bother. There would have been plenty of ex TR milliners around in early post war Germany and plenty of souvenir hungry occupation troops so why wouldn't you bother? This is the period that really scares me, how on earth would you be able to identify a cap made at this time.

Bingo! right on the money

[Koguryo9]

Thanks Nick. Did the Alteste's that you have seen without any markings all have diamond-shape sweatshields? Any non-marked Alteste's with rhomboid-style sweatshield?

[Koguryo9]

Yes! The one I posted IMO is a contract cap.

Hmm. Very interesting. From what I can see the cap crown is made of doeskin type wool, not the regulation trikot? So I guess some government contract caps were actually made of materials other than the regulation trikot?
If that is the case, I guess a lot of the caps without markings that we thought were "private purchase" might actually be contract caps.

By the way, does anybody know the motive behind Dr. B's Alteste business? Supplying movie studios or feeding off the post-war Third Reich militaria frenzy?

[NTZ]

Thanks Nick. Did the Alteste's that you have seen without any markings all have diamond-shape sweatshields? Any non-marked Alteste's with rhomboid-style sweatshield?

Yes & yes