Time to dispel a few more "myths"

[BenVK]

Ok, I was going to wait until I'd repaired this one and got it back to the owner. But, with all the weird theories flying around lately about period materials and what's authentic and what's not, I think it's a perfect time to post this extraordinary visor.

A bit of background first. I got an email from a guy here in the UK who said he had a visor that needed another sweatband sewn in as the original one had come off and been lost. Somewhere down the ine, someone had taken a piece of wool and sewn that in as a replacement?! I was up for the task but wasn't prepared for what I found.

The cap is an original Schellenberg Infantry cap, no doubt about it and no big deal you would think but look at the materials used.

Firstly the cap cover, at first I thought it was a rayon of some kind. It's so smooth and shiny it would probably be mistaken for a post war synthetic material. Not so, it's a very fine weave trikot (garbardine) that may/probably have rayon fibres within it that give this super smooth, shiny appearance. What's more, look at the colour, A very pale grey. Unusual to say the least but I've just bought another Schellenburg recently that is also made out of this very "modern" looking material. I'll post that later.

So, the pic of the cap overall.

[BenVK]

This pic gives and idea of the very tight weave of the trikot but unfortunatley doesn't show how shiny it is which really is impressive when in hand.

So, second unusual feature. Look at the piping, a spiral weave wool. I've only ever seen this on a few SS visors before.

[BenVK]

The pale grey is very attractive.

[BenVK]

Interior. Forget the wool s-band, this is the part that's been replaced, badly. The original grey leather band is still stitched on in certain areas directly to the padding material which is plain wool like the bottom frame of the cap below the bottom piping. The other Schellenberg I've bought has the same wool insert between band and frame.

Note the unpainted, smooth peak. X hatching a must? not so.

[BenVK]

Ok, now the absolute killer! We, I and everybody into visor caps have always been under the assumption that the pasteboard on TR visors will/should be cardboard, treated with a waterproof finish most of time.

Well, this cap has a transparent pasteboard made from what I think is celluloid. It's not stiff and can bend easliy and I never seen anything like it but IMO it's period without a doubt. This cap has never been re-worked or tampered with apart from the clown that added the wool s-band.

[BenVK]

I think this is an amazing discovery and at the risk of sounding like a visor cap geek, a very important one too. No other cap I've seen or heard about has this kind of pasteboard and it blows all the theories about accepted materials in cap manufacture during the TR period out the water.

So, what do you guys make of it?

[Lasse Kongo]

Ok, now the absolute killer! We, I and everybody into visor caps have always been under the assumption that the pasteboard on TR visors will/should be cardboard, treated with a waterproof finish most of time.

Well, this cap has a transparent pasteboard made from what I think is celluloid. It's not stiff and can bend easliy and I never seen anything like it but IMO it's period without a doubt. This cap has never been re-worked or tampered with apart from the clown that added the wool s-band.

Ben,

Almost all original KM Visorcaps as well as Donal Duck caps have eather transparent or black celluid pastebord. That because to withstand the water at see better then paper.

So it is acctually not that extraordinar. May have been used as a shortage of paper or maybee a batch for a rainy climate:-)

Lasse

[John Pic]

BenVK interesting thread topic and I wouldnt pass of that woll replacement band as a post war repair.A member here has an SS visor with a wool band replacing the leather one. That leather is thin and may have worn down become damaged and irritating over years of use, the soldier may have had a quick fix solution by adding the wool.

[BenVK]

Ben,

Almost all original KM Visorcaps as well as Donal Duck caps have eather transparent or black celluid pastebord. That because to withstand the water at see better then paper.

So it is acctually not that extraordinar. May have been used as a shortage of paper or maybee a batch for a rainy climate:-)

Lasse

Ah ok, thanks, I'm not a KM collector so didn't think of that but you have to admit, it's highly unusal if not unique for an Army cap.

[BenVK]

BenVK interesting thread topic and I wouldnt pass of that woll replacement band as a post war repair.A member here has an SS visor with a wool band replacing the leather one. That leather is thin and may have worn down become damaged and irritating over years of use, the soldier may have had a quick fix solution by adding the wool.

I suppose that is a possibility John, although the break in the original leather band look too fresh to be an old repair.

[Lasse Kongo]

Ah ok, thanks, I'm not a KM collector so didn't think of that but you have to admit, it's highly unusal if not unique for an Army cap.

Yes, it is!

Lasse

[Bob Hritz]

Field modified SS officer's hat with wool sweatband. Note the visor; it is an RZM SS-VT hat.

Bob Hritz

[NTZ]

Ben this one is cool for many reasons. Oh, and don’t deny it, you are a visor geek too. From my study of Schellenberg’s. They are one of the few that used the staples to hold the pasteboard together. But only on their early visors (well until now). Most of the later Schellenberg’s just sewn together the pasteboard ends. One thing that is Schellenberg all the way is he sewn down the cheesecloth to the pasteboard. I don’t remember seeing this on any other maker. The materials would indicate to me this was made for a warm climate.

[ErichK]

Ben that is a very interesting hat to say the least, from the material to the KM like band stiffener. I'd re- think doing anything to it.

[Guy]

I have owned that cap on a number of occasions, I sold It to the new owner at Beltring this year. Had I known he was going to mess about with It I would NOT have let him have it. IMO If you touch anything on this cap you will be doing It a huge dis-service.

If you look, the original grey sweatband was cut down to the root and a nice piece of high quality wool put in. The wool is of the period, doubled and blanket stitched. I have seen this modification 2 or 3 times before and it seems it was done to make the cap smaller. This cap was shown on this forum by me last year in a thread by Bob C.

This is a "summer" weight cap and whilst scarce, just because It Is beyond your experience, does not make it some kind of ground breaking discovery. I salute your efforts in restoring caps that genuinely need It but I am afraid if you take that on board you also shoulder the responsibility of knowing when to leave well alone. And In this case you should.

Guy.