SS Officer's Unissued Black Oversea Hat

[B. N. Singer]

Well, maybe I am the only skeptic...I have doubts

No your not, so do I.

B. N. Singer

[SgtB]

Amazing! I got a skull button and nearly identical eagle in a box of goodies from a vet years ago. The button is good, but I always had doubts about the eagle. Hope springs eternal . . .

[jimt]

overseas cap

That hat would not be for my collection, remember seeing that same one in the 1980's, did not like it then, I have not changed my opinion of it.

[derek]

I'm with Jim on this one. Here is an example I declined in the 80's. There was no badge attached to this one and the label is sewn on slightly differently but the same size "54".
Derek

[derek]

Interior.

[Bob Hritz]

Well, I guess I will stand against those whose opinions I respect. I still like the cap. If it was devoid of the label and had flatwire insignia, would there still be the same doubts about the actual materials and construction of the cap?

Bob Hritz

[Arran]

I've never been too fond of the conspicuously everlapped piping...I like to see the ends blended together almost invisibly...but then I ask myself: would I be suspicious of this cap if it we're Luft? I don't know. Its well made, and has some appealing features, but it doesn't fall into what I would call "unquestionable". Just my thoughts.

[Richard P]

I also prefer to see the metal piping overlap itself above the back seam, but then I wasn't consulted during its construction. The cap has some definite merits....the TK button is real, the tag appears to be a period tag, the hat is a quality made piece, very similiar to an EM I have that is like tagged. I do not care for the position of the eagle, nor the way it is sewn on. My observations are that most bullion cap and breast/sleeve eagles are hand stitched on in tiny loop stitches that pretty much disappear if done correctly. This eagle has been very poorly machine stitched on with a straight stitch that misses about 30% of the eagle. I have never seen an eagle quite like that and have had one direct from the vet 30 years ago. He kept the black backed German Cross and sold me the cap eagle. That doesn't make it bad just because I haven't seen one and Brian said he has this same cap set from a vet. I believe that paper price tag is stitched on with the piping, I don't know if the tag is period. It's a very small size. All in all I think it has quite a few things in its favor, with a possibly added bullion eagle. I think the scales tip more to the merits than detractions.

Richard

[Mike Davis]

If it was devoid of the label and had flatwire insignia, would there still be the same doubts about the actual materials and construction of the cap?

Bob, I'd expect to find a cap of the 'boat shaped' type to have separate insignias placed on the front of the cap.

And although there are literally thousands of published photos from earlier war years showing EM caps with skull button on front and eagle on the side worn as part of the panzer kit, I'm unable to find any shots of a cap of the type posted being worn.

However, I do remember having seen photos of odd (perhaps one offs?) sidecaps worn by WSS panzer officers, just unable to locate examples at the moment.

In contrast, it was quite easy to find earlier war photos of WSS panzer officers wearing converted Heer caps - see just a few sample images from Verweht sind die Spuren.

I know that Ron R posted this on the behalf of someone else. It would be interesting to know his opinion about the cap's originality...

[jimt]

overseas cap

I think what has troubled me over the years is that I have never seen a final pattern officers overseas cap( in green ) with a RZM tag in it ? that said " then why is this final pattern black officers overseas cap have a RZM tag in it " ? Both are from the same time frame ? .Derek's posting of his picture for this hat from the 1980's would also need some serious explaining? Lets here about that .....
Lets forget about the insignia Bob and hear about these issues which address the body of the cap.
jim toncar