Pictured is a black leather Panzer wrapper and trousers. Both appear to be Heer cut, double breasted front. I know this is controversial and that most consider these wrappers and pants to be NSKK, KM, but it is documented that they were issued to WSS, Heer units for trial periods. This uniform was obtained by my friend directly from vet's daughter about 20 years ago and has been in his collection since. I recently acquired it on a trade. Opinions please.
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Nice original set of leathers, as worn by the units you've mentioned. I won't wager a guess as to when the award loops, boards, and eagle were added, but it is certainly an original set and good to see the trousers still retain their original belt.
s/f RobertComment
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I agree with RobertE, but will also add that I have seen a couple of examples with very solid vet pedigree that were SS badged. I think (know 100%) that these same origin leathers were also used by the HG Pz div, KM midget sub pilots and I think almost for sure by some Heer PZ personnel.
What I strongly disagree with is that these have ANY connection AT ALL with the NSKK!!! This is a complete myth and makes zero sense, there is no published information supporting this although we now the published source claiming this and then showing a photo of NSKK wearing a completely different style of civilian leathers from period 10 years prior to this type was introduced!!! This period being even after the NSKK was basically no more on top of everything else.......a lot of lazy false myths in this hobby.....not that I have strong feelings about such mis-information!
I also disagree these are "Heer" cut. They are really sort of a hybrid cut.....straight front, small lapels, narrow collar and short body......ALL SS characteristics! They do have a center back seam....which is Heer and some earlier SS features so take your pick.
IMO the back seam was not a style characteristic but implemented on these as a manufacturing requirement.
I think that you set is probably the way it was used and came back.Comment
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thanks
Yes, I confirmed the tunic had sleeve eagle and shoulder board buttons and loop, he added shoulder straps years ago, so if they're repro, that explains it. Said his neighbor brought this back and he had seen it in his house since early 60's, I believe it is 100% WSS original. Shoulder boards added yes, that I concede.Comment
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Thanks for that info. I found the thread on the SS forum and still stand beside my comments above. This variation is strongly supported by several known legit vet sets as being at least in some cases W-SS used.Originally posted by drbill View Post
Some of these sets also have KM acceptance stamps although that is seldom seen. It is a well documented (in photos and some cases of vets bringing these in from French located U-boot pens) that they were also KM used. Photos exist of these same sets being worn by HG Pz div officers. We also know that 1st US Inf Div soldiers encountered a supply facility with a number of these sets in Germany.
There were at least four makers, maybe 5 that have been discovered. It seems that the very earliest known examples are dated 43 with more dated 44 and most not dated at all but from the 44-45 time frame based on all indications. These are all later war made/design so probably not much into the field until the last 12 months or even 6 months of the war. They don't know it yet, but there is also a photo of a FJ wearing one of these on the FJ forum, after the battle of Brest Fr. and he no doubt got it from KM stores and badged it!
I think that the whole 'SS vs KM vs Heer cut or design" path of discussion is a red herring. I think that these may have been designed for the SeeHund program, but whether formally or informally were procured in some numbers for testing and use by PZ formations of all services. A lot more photos of these are turning up in use as things keep coming out.Comment
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I am no longer an association member or I would post my images of these including a nice wrapper that recently sold with 100% provenance.
The postwar SS attribution may be just that. My gut when I saw the way the arm eagle was sewn was no. The one's I have seen for this style were tight. Sum of all parts for me.
I remember the NSKK attribution to these mid90s. Some will argue that notion is still correct. Phild makes a strong case why that 'myth' arose as well as very strong points on why it is wrong. There are ample images to argue the night away.
I like the set personally though I have a gut feeling it was monkeyed with.Comment
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This leather wrap in use by a WH Panzerman can be seen at 1'04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=purlnb6wb08Comment
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