Jacques Littlefield Panther is being investigated by the feds

[paddywhack]

Dzięki Michał



It's getting borring...

In this topic is added scan of officials dokument. It's clear - "No permission".

I have my private opinion and nothing can change it.
I must nothing - It is job for Police and Prosecutor to clear this case and identify smugglers.
If you don't like it it's your problem.

oh so its now boring because we want your proof!!one document does certainly NOT prove its stolen! and you now say its your opinion!you were shouting how you knew it was stolen!so am i to take it you DONT work for the polish goverment and actauly dont work for the people handling the case and the only proof you have is one scan of a doc and internet hear say?would that be correct?

[Panzer]

hi Michael,
no problem here either....and I have no interest from over this part of the world and no argument with you friend. My problem is the heavy use of "it was stolen" when no proof has yet been given. Until it is legally decided it's hearsay and some other parties to this discussion are too liberal in it's use.

Ohlau, I know nothing will change your mind, and I do not seek to. But you cannot accuse people of something that is not proven, and since you refuse to answer if you have any connection with the attempt to get this tank back........we can take that many ways. but I do know that whatever you or I say or argue will make not one grain of difference to the outcome.

I believe the right thing has been done for this historical item. History has been saved, no matter if you dislike it or not. Nothing happened to this tank when it was in Poland, but now it is back together and people interested can see it. Good. I believe you have plenty of other projects in Poland to keep you busy........good luck with those. We look forward to seeing them running also.

Panzer

[Ohlau]

Ewe want your proof!!one document does certainly NOT prove its stolen! and you now say its your opinion!you were shouting how you knew it was stolen!so am i to take it you DONT work for the polish goverment and actauly dont work for the people handling the case and the only proof you have is one scan of a doc and internet hear say?would that be correct?

Added documents and my private knowledge about another events are enough for my private opinion. I'm not Policeman, Porsecutor, or Judge. For that reason I'm not going to turn this topic into court session. Take cold shower.

[panzermeyer]

alez prosze

personally I doubt panther will ever be returned to poland and i believe that its owner can sleep sound. He propably bought it in good faith. Nobody is going to prove it that He knew it was smugled. and any case in Us courts would last long time and cost a lot of money.
what i would like to see is Mr. Keszycki beein put in front of judge for smugling this tank out of the country as a scrap metal, against clear declaration of Polish Conservator office, for His private monetary gain. And let judge decide.

@Panzer - take it easy, I dont have to prove anything here to You, We all just exchange opinions and informations. from my point of view this is a case of smuggling.

i remember in the 90's when this panther dissapeared. First there was some articles in papers and TV about recovery action, everyone werre happy this tank was =so complete..... then, all the sudden all went quiet and nobody could even say what actually happened to this tank. took years before I got the news about this tank beeing in US. very fishy story and i hope guilty will be punished

and here is the corpse with 3 pips visible, unknown purpose, maybe wurframen, or camouflage or extra armor. Altogether I am happy that panther is restored and thats the most important part.

@ hufschmied - thanks for update !!

@ Panzermeyer, i understand, We all get excited sometimes. I apologize for my "piehole" too...

thank you

[Daniel.S]

Let the panther be, it will stay in the states regardless how much anyone want it back in Poland.

Use that motivation of yours to find those in Poland who got the big $$ selling that panther.

[paddywhack]

Added documents and my private knowledge about another events are enough for my private opinion. I'm not Policeman, Porsecutor, or Judge. For that reason I'm not going to turn this topic into court session. Take cold shower.

so if you have all this "evidence" i take it you have presented it to the polish goverment and are in some way connected with the case then? would this be correct or you simply making assumption based on your opinions and actually have no concrete evidence that would stand up in a court of law?? and im not turning this into a court session i just want to know your connection to this case and your evidence do back up your claims you made and i quote


"Did the legal owner let the transport abroad? - NO"--where is your evidence for this

"There was no permission to take away this tank from Poland"-again please back this up with evidence

"The point is how he got it from Poland without the permission of Polish officials. " --where is your evidence for this quote?(and by the way that one doc posted means nothing as how do we know the next day another doc giving permission wanst issued?)

you made these quotes and i would like to see how you back these claims up? also this tank is Alleged to be stolen and i think in polish courts it is innocent until proven guilty? i hope im correct in that statement? if so then it is not stolen till it is proven in court!

[Michael Kuligowski]

"There was no permission to take away this tank from Poland"-again please back this up with evidence

did you actually read that thread Paddy ?? go to page 3 there is a scan of document that CLEARLY states that tank CANT be removed from the teritory of Poland as a part of national historical heritage

[paddywhack]

and my point was how do we know there isnt another document that was done a few days later stating that they could transport the tank?how do you know there are not more docs out there?

[Ohlau]

Are you blind or abnormal ?

Here was added official document of Polish conservation officer. For me it's enough. You can ignore it, also ignore Polish law regulations - It's your case and I don't care it.

If you have problems with others people opinions - go to court or psychiatric.
I'm not going to discuss with you more or giving you "evidence". As I say - I'm not Policeman.

Have nice time

[paddywhack]

also you dont just import a tank into the states unless EVERY doc is correct! i suspect this will be a storm in a tea cup and nothing will come of it and it stays in the US!

[paddywhack]

Are you blind or abnormal ?

Here was added official document of Polish conservation officer. For me it's enough. You can ignore it, also ignore Polish law regulations - It's your case and I don't care it.

If you have problems with others people opinions - go to court or psychiatric.
I'm not going to discuss with you more or giving you "evidence".

one document does NOT make a open and shut case! a mere scan of a doc on a website means nothing!!and nice reply ignoring my questions now!!!

[Panzer]

Ohlau......I think it is you who need to "take cold shower"! LOL
I will put it like this.....it is YOU who make accusations....it is YOU who is tryng to put everyone in their place....it is YOU who says "this is the way it is....I do not need proof. It is YOU who are jumping up and down and making a fool of yourself.

Well my friend....Posession is 9/10 of the law, the Panther is in the Littlefield collection in the USA and I doubt you will ever see it again. Frankly I hope you never do.....

Panzer

[Bradley Smith]

After two attempts to discern motivations here, and having them both ignored, I must conclude with my own expressed personal opinion that the whole stink is being raised by "crooks of opportunity". The chance to obtain a very expensive item at little to no cost because somewhere along the line a law was allegedly broken is what is being pursued here, not some sense of restoring cultural history.

I only see three solutions here.
1) Pay for the restoration work that was performed.
2) Allow the Littlefield Museum the appropriate time to return the tank to it's original "Polish" condition.
3) Accept the fact that it's gone and will never return to Poland.


Do you guys need this thing for a big Sept. 1st party?

[Schnellmeyer]

For what it is worth , if the the Littlefield Foundation cannot have it, then lets return it to its rightful owners , which by the way is not Poland . Send the Panther back to Germany , it is still their property , like it or not

[TRC]

Not sure, but I wouldn't think any nation retains any legal rights to military equipment lost in battle in foreign lands.
On the sea, in international waters, yes.