Wittmann's grave.

[Willi Z.]

Most veterans ( I have met) take a more reasonable view than we of post war generations take .

I agree that most veterans, as well as that generation as a whole, have a more reasonable and less simplistic view of what happened and how/why.

I just spent 10 days in eastern Germany (Berlin, Potsdam, Dresden, Leipzig, Seelow Heights, Küstrin, etc, etc..and the former parts of Germany, where my parents are from, that are now Poland) and I have an entirely different view of what the war was about. As compared to how we in the west view it and my experiences touring the western front battlefields.

[SurvivingPanzer]

When I visitied Wittman and crews grave this summer it was raining. It was very somber. Very cold and kind of depressing.

[redfeaag]

When I visitied Wittman and crews grave this summer it was raining. It was very somber. Very cold and kind of depressing.

Quite apt for the life of a German soldier. How ever much we glamourise it, it was only ever likely to end in one way.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well Well

As a student of military history I have no problem with the hero worship of German soldiers. I understand it more than the hero worship of football players or other athletes. As far as how a German soldier will end up, well some lived to tell their stories and they look a lot better than a 50 year old footbal player. I say 50 because very few of todays pro ball players will live much past that.

[Panzer Rob]

As a student of military history I have no problem with the hero worship of German soldiers. I understand it more than the hero worship of football players or other athletes. As far as how a German soldier will end up, well some lived to tell their stories and they look a lot better than a 50 year old footbal player. I say 50 because very few of todays pro ball players will live much past that.

Best post I read here all day. As a military history enthusiast, I couldn't agree more.

Rob

[PanzerFlo]

I was at La Cambe cemetary in summer of 2005 and also took a photo of his grave.



One can order the men of the cemetary to put on flowers and/or candles on a grave for a little fee, by the way.

However I would never ever go to a war cemetary in an SS-uniform as some guys did when I was there.

[behblc]

A fair comment by Dr Strangelove - I don't do the hero worship , a little too old and reflective perhaps.
I do subscribe to the words of Wilfred Owen .
" The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori"

Housman put it like this.

"Life to be sure
Is nothing much to lose,
But youngmen think it is,
And we were young"

[SurvivingPanzer]

A life is a valuable thing, it is by far the greatest thing that an individual can give. To discriminate against a person who gave their life for a cause based on nationality is not fair. We were all young once, do we all think the same way we did when we were 20? Things are a little distorted at that age.

[Ludwig]

I would be interested to understand peoples reasons for visiting his grave. I think if I were to do so it would be more out of curiosity than respect. Perhaps "meeting" the famous man.

Whilst undeniably a master of his art he was still a comitted nazi and a man who fought against my country and killed many of my countrymen.

A fascinating figure but one I am still happier is dead than alive. It probably saved many allied lives.

I would be happy to visit his grave, but as I said my reasons would be more out of historical curiosity than paying respects.

Please don´t forget your country declared war on Wittmann´s country. Wittmann fought for his country – and he fought well! – "nazi" or not. What has his political ideas with this to do? How do you know he was a "comitted nazi"?
On the other hand you are of course entitled to have this opinion.
I hope it´s OK if I don´t understand people who pay their respect to Russians, Americans, Englishmen and so on and so on?...

[behblc]

Gents although I am not the "Mod". , should we cool this down a little and take views on who started the war out of it and the "nazi" element as it will only provoke a situation which will lead to the thread being locked.
This board is non political so lets not bring closure on the thread.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Non-Political

I think what upset us Military History buffs is that we are, for the most part, very objective. We are aware enough to realize that we have no idea of what we would be doing if we were born in Germany in 1919. We could have been a Communist, a Nazi or fled the country. To sit here and say in 2007 that Nazi's are bad is great and easy, but what if you had been born in Germany in this time frame? I have a suspicion that those so quick to judge Soldiers in the past would be the fastest to jump on the bandwagon of a Mass Movement today. Why not?, these judgemental types have already displayed an incredible level of ignorance and brainwashing administered by movies and current political correctness. So they have already joined one Movement with no thought. Never judge a Man until you walk in his, er Jackboots.

[Ludwig]

I think what upset us Military History buffs is that we are, for the most part, very objective. We are aware enough to realize that we have no idea of what we would be doing if we were born in Germany in 1919. We could have been a Communist, a Nazi or fled the country. To sit here and say in 2007 that Nazi's are bad is great and easy, but what if you had been born in Germany in this time frame? I have a suspicion that those so quick to judge Soldiers in the past would be the fastest to jump on the bandwagon of a Mass Movement today. Why not?, these judgemental types have already displayed an incredible level of ignorance and brainwashing administered by movies and current political correctness. So they have already joined one Movement with no thought. Never judge a Man until you walk in his, er Jackboots.

Well spoken!

[behblc]

Hindsight is a great tool and a great many who were taken up by the spirit of the times and obligation to their country now reflect differently on it whilst remembering that which was best - the comardeship and shared dangers.
My late father reflected to me that when he finally got to meeting German sailors in 1945 he found them much the same as he was and equally glad that the war was over and that they were alive.

[Robert H]

I just heard on TV view days ago that most US college teens think Germany was fighting with the US Army against Russia.

[bnz. 42]

I just heard on TV view days ago that most US college teens think Germany was fighting with the US Army against Russia.

Ha-ha, some adult Americans think that America fought against them both Germany and Russia in WW2.
Bad education...