oblong pin plates

[dolchmann07]

While all of these are from my questionable pile and were purchased in lots, with other good pieces. I always considered the 3 on the right to most likely be good.is the oblong pin plates theory a 100% thing. I got lucky and went through 40 some party pins and had none that had the oblong pin plates. So i was happy after studying this some of the earlier posts. Because I enjoy the variations of the NSDAP party pins. I would lay them all out on the scanner, but they are in a shadow box and a pain to take back out. And get set back in straight.
This has been a very educational part of the Tinnies & Political Badges Forum and I have read posts some going back to 2006. So I thank all of you for the help and to all of those that question Angolia and Foremans and the enamel book, I have found errors in all of them, they used what they had to work with at the time. But I have had a question from another thread, has any one found errors in Tieste's books. Because i have not. That does not mean they are not there. He seems to be real good at what he does and all of the people I have mentioned are assets to the hobby.
Jack

[dolchmann07]

oblong pin plates

Has any one ever seen the SA/SS ski pin, I have been seeing a lot of different Ski pins popping up in the last couple of years.
Jack

[dolchmann07]

oblong pin plates

3 more with the oblong pin plates, does it make a difference if the oblong pin plates are rounded on the ends ? I found 3 more with the oblong shape.
Jack

[dolchmann07]

oblong pin plates

I hope I am not puttinganyone to sleep. I feel that it is important to sort this out and get it right.
Thanks
Jack

[Don Scowen]

Let me try to answer your questions Jack.

Firstly to the plates.

It's not purely the a badge has an oblong shape pin plate, many badges & awards during the period used oblong plates, it's the particular sape & design of the oblong that gives the game away.

In your first picture, all but one of those plates are of post war design. The short, what some call "coffin shaped" oval plates with cropped ends were never used during the period. The plate used on the badge in the bottom right of the picture is typical of the period for a larger size badge.

Confusion can sometimes be caused for the untrained eye with the smaller plates because some manufactures (Hoffstätter for instance) generally used a small oval plate, however once compared to the modern design the differences are very easy to see. They do not have the cropped ends or the harder angles to the sides like the modern design.

The Tirol badges you show are all genuine, the plates used on these are typical of the type used on these large heavy badges.

What makes things more difficult is that although the small oval plates with cropped ends were not used during the period, the larger oval design seen on the other badges you show (the Handwerks & the Tirol) are still used today....... So then we have to use other skills to determine whether we think a badge is from the period or is post war. But that's another story.

And to your other question re Tieste, yes there are errors. One off the top of my head is a particular SS Schützen tinnie that was first manufactured in Holland during the 1970's or 80's & never exisited during the period was featured in one of his volumes. And for that reason it can be very difficult to convince a collector that it is a fantasy piece..... If it's in Tieste it must be real

I hope things are a little clearer.

Cheers
Don

[sjl]

Don of course is the man to listen to in these matters. As he said, it's not oval or oblong badges pinplates that are the problem - it is the ones with the sharply clipped ends. I coined the phrase "coffin-shaped" to try to describe them.

For example, all of the badges in your first photo have this bad pinplate, except the gold badge. The gold badge looks good to me and has a period pinplate. All the Tirol badges are similarly good.

[dolchmann07]

oblong pin plates

Now, I have learned something I can spread to many people and I know exactly what to look for and what to teach. I hope many people look at this and see the examples that I put up and read what Don has to say. This question will come up again and I can take the lead. I picked the pins out and thought I had the perfect cross reference here to define what you were saying in a earlier post.
When you learn a lesson that simplifies the enamel question to this point, you have eliminated at least 75% of all questions on enamel pins.
Don, my hat is off to you.
Thank You,
Jack

[Silesien]

Additionally: the SS-SA Ski Badge is the exact fake sold by Reddick Enterprises, item 0107-003-015, @ $12.60 to dealers. That SS round thing is Reddick's exact item 0107-001-043 pictured on page 3 of their catalog, @ $3.60. In the catalog are also shown the HJ Arbeiter badge, the German-British friendship badge, & many others.

[dolchmann07]

oblong pin plates

Additionally: the SS-SA Ski Badge is the exact fake sold by Reddick Enterprises, item 0107-003-015, @ $12.60 to dealers. That SS round thing is Reddick's exact item 0107-001-043 pictured on page 3 of their catalog, @ $3.60. In the catalog are also shown the HJ Arbeiter badge, the German-British friendship badge, & many others.

Funny thing about the fake SS/SA ski pin, I could never find it in a book, it is not in Tieste's and I opened a book just a few days ago and there was a NSKK guy wearing the exact pin in the period of course, so it is not a fantasy and is a fake. i just thought I would add that FYI. I would like to have the real one.
jack

[Silesien]

I seem to remember such a picture as well, maybe in one of my books, but don't recall which one. It would be cool if you could tell us the name of the book, or post the picture you came across.

[TobyR]

I seem to remember there's a photo of an NSKK man wearing one of these in Fuehrer & Fatherland, Volume 2.

[Silesien]

Toby, you are correct, the picture of it being worn is on page 260, being worn by an NSKK (Motorized-SA) Sturmführer, the badge is clearly identifiable. A picture of the badge, along with info about it, is shown on page 259. Thanks for your suggestion, & for jogging my memory.