Did someone get a monster bargain from Detlev?

[Richard]

I saw on the Friday update that Detlev sold a hollow Gautag Osthannover badge for about $78. Isn't this the same badge that is considered a Gau Badge and normally goes for about $400-$500 or is there a solid backed or different example that is considered the Gau Badge?
Richard V

[Don Scowen]

Another one of those controversial pieces.

Some collectors believe that the hollow backs are Gau awards as well as the solid backs. Others (like Detlev) believe that they are tinnies & only the solid backs are Gau awards.

Cheers
Don

[Peppe864]

I think they are tinnies.................

[tgn]

I thought they were tinnies too, but only based on Detlev's comments in his book. I am not so sure now. This is a very mysterious badge indeed. Does anyone have a solid version in bronze??? And if they do exist, how would they differ from the so-called tinnies???

Tom

[Stan]

Gau Hannover Badge

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the hollow bronze version of the Gau Hannover Badge is indeed nothing more than a tinnie and that is why I do not have one in my collection because I do not collect tinnies.

In my opinion there was only one grade of the Gau Hannover badge and that is the solid (tombak) version in Gold.


Stan

[Stan]

Gau Hannover Badge

Reverse.

Stan

[Stan]

Gau Hannover Badge

Furthermore, you will see that the badge depicted on the rare Gau Hannover document is also gold coloured. Doehle's book "Die Auszeichnungen des Grossdeutschen Reichs" also shows the gold version.

Stan

[Stan]

Gau Hannover Badge

Detlev refers to other solid versions (Silver and Bronze) but I have yet to see one and would be VERY interested if someone can post a picture.

He also states that they were issued to party members with a number below 100,000 as well as other worthy members of the Gau. Note that Frau Boettjer had NSDAP party number 551752.

Stan

[Peter J.]

Stan, stunning stuff as usual

cheers
Peter

[speedytop]

Hi Stan,

"... In my opinion there was only one grade of the Gau Hannover badge..."

But you can find in Doehle 1944/45 under the picture of the golden badge the information:

"auch in Silber und Bronze", that is in English "also in silver and bronze".

And in "von Hessenthal/Schreiber, Die tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Reiches" from 1940 you can find:

"Das Ehrenzeichen wird in Gold, Silber und Bronze verliehen ..."
"The honor badge is awarded in gold, silver and bronze... "

These are contemporary books!

I have no problems with my bronze badge (hollow back) as "Ehrenzeichen für Osthannover".
You can find the picture of my badge in: "Jörg Nimmergut, Orden & Ehrenzeichen, Deutschland-Katalog 2007/2008" on page 497.

It is only Niemann with his opinion about this (hollow back) bagde, and I do not think that he can prove it, he only writes: "... from my point of view ...".

Regards
Uwe

[Stan]

Gau Hannover Badge

Hi Uwe,

Helmut Weitze also told me that the hollow Bronze Ost-Hannover badges are probably tinnies so it is not just DN who has this opinion.

I admit that I have not seen Doehle's 1944/45 book and I was referring to his 1943 book. I also admit that Nimmergut shows examples of the hollow version in Bronze, Silver and Gold.

I just find it hard to believe that whilst there are hundreds of hollow bronze badges out there plus a handful of solid (tombak) Gold versions, there are not any solid (tombak) Silver or Bronze versions....

I appreciate your comments as I really would like to find out more about these badges.

Regards,

Stan

[tgn]

I just find it hard to believe that whilst there are hundreds of hollow bronze badges out there plus a handful of solid (tombak) Gold versions, there are not any solid (tombak) Silver or Bronze versions....Stan

But wouldn't that maybe make sense? After all, would not the gold award be a higher, and more limited awarded version and therefore more likely made in a more prestigious solid form? The bronze version, being the lowest class and most abundantly awarded version could then likely be made in a stamped form. As for the silver, I have seen a few in solid form (did not know if they were original or not), but never one in a stamped form.

So maybe there are no solid bronze versions. And, as is the case with many three class awards, the middle one (silver) often turns out to be the more uncommonly awarded of the three. That could account for its scarcity.

Like I said before, I really don't know what the truth is. I do know that I had a bronze Gau Thüringen award long before it was ever recognized as even existing. So for me, I am keeping my bronze Gau Ost-Hannover as an award until I see proof otherwise, which DN and Weitze don't offer...

Tom

[Stan]

Gau Hannover Badge

Tom,

I have seen two Silver "hollow" versions over the past five years- one was sold by Kai Winkler and the other by an American dealer.

All Gau badges are rare- Sudentenland, Wartheland, Essen, Danzig, Ost Preussen etc and this reinforces my belief that the Gau Ost Hannover would not have been produced en-masse. My conclusion is that it is similar to the aluminium version of the Gau Essen badge which sells for around €150 whereas the smaller 925 silver version sells for €2500.

Interesting topic!

Stan

[speedytop]

Hi Stan,

Weitze: "... are probably tinnies ..."

I found only Bronze and Silver badges as hollow back version and Gold badges as solid version.

Why is it not possible that there were the badges in Bronze and Silver only as hollow back versions and the badge in Gold only as solid version?

I have not seen, in any case, the badges in Bronze and Silver as solid version and the badge in Gold as hollow back version.

The book from von Hessenthal/Schreiber from 1940 is for me the most important source: Gold, Silver and Bronze.

Dr. Klietmann writes in 1971, that he never saw an original, that he could describe in his book, the description occurred after the literature (Doehle and von Hessenthal/Schreiber).

And he writes about copies of the Gold badge, produced by Souval since 1967, solid and gilded, 43 x 53,2 mms, 3 mms thick. Marked L/58 and unmarked.

Regards
Uwe

[tgn]

Tom,
All Gau badges are rare- Sudentenland, Wartheland, Essen, Danzig, Ost Preussen etc and this reinforces my belief that the Gau Ost Hannover would not have been produced en-masse. My conclusion is that it is similar to the aluminium version of the Gau Essen badge which sells for around €150 whereas the smaller 925 silver version sells for €2500.

Interesting topic!

Stan

Yes Stan, but the Gau Essen "tinnie" and Gau Essen "award" are different in appearance (and size) to differentiate them. Same with the Gau Thüringen "tinnie" and "award". So why would not the Gau Ost Hannover "tinnie" and "award" also show a difference?

I agree, very interesting topic. There seems to be a lack of good information on the topic of Gau awards.

BTW, your Gau Ost Hannover group is stunning!

Tom