Early HJ and DJ pin

[dirklein]

What are the opinions on these 2 pins ? The pictures are not very good, I know. But perhaps somebody can say something about these ??

Regards,
dirklein

[dirklein]

The rune is red, can't see it on this picture. And the back has the Ges. Gesch. and the RZM mark

[burgerhaus]

Dirk I personally don't care for the oval attaching pin platee on both of them. The patina looks artificial as well. Just my personal opinion. Other opinions? Robert

[sjl]

I think Robert is right - the top one is at least questionable and the bottom one is definitely bad. We'd need a better photo of the top one to be sure one way or the other.

[Don Scowen]

I agree with both of my colleagues regarding the DJ, dafinitely a bad'n.

However, regarding the HJ Traditions I'm not sure what I think of this design. I've seen a similar one before with the same design obverse (23 sun rays instead of the usual 15 or 19) & the Swastika that's risen higher than normal.

The reverse of that one had the exact same oval plate but was marked with the RZM symbol & 63, no M1 code..... I'd say we can safely say the same people made both of these, but whether they are good or not I'd have to reserve judgement at the moment, I'd need to have them in hand.

As to the style of oval plate used here, there are some instances where they are acceptable, Hoffstätter for instance were known to use similar oval plates (although those had the little cut out section in the centre to allow a better grip of the pin) as did Redo. They are very different to the narrow cropped type as seen on the DJ shown here.....

Cheers
Don

[Wim Vangossum]

I agree with the things pointed out by my fellow collectors. For me it is the patina. It has a look that says "NO!"

Regards, Theo

[dirklein]

Thank you for your answers. I'll try to make better pictures.

Regards,
dirklein

[dirklein]

I put in 2 new pictures. And here is a pictures from the site of the HJ badge.

Regards,
dirklein

[Don Scowen]

I've discovered that I still have the images of the one I mentioned in my files, here it is, note the similarities.......

[Don Scowen]

reverse.

I'm not saying that it's good, just very similar to the one at the top of this thread.

[burgerhaus]

Gents Herr Niemann just happened to have one of these this morning.

[Don Scowen]

Not quite Robert. Notice that the number of sun rays is less than on the badges above (only 19) & the Swastika is at the normal hight, just appearing over the horizon. On the reverse the pin plate, although oval has the cut out in the centre.

Having said that I don't care much for the one sold today, could be the harsh lighting but the quality looks very poor. Add to that the markings, just RZM..........

Cheers
Don

[burgerhaus]

Don Actually, I was only referring to the RZM markings. Despite other views, I still cling to the beleif that these are pre-RZM badges. If memory serves the badge I mentioned was described as 1932-33. RZM was not instituted until after that time. Does someone actually have the period reference for the RZM inception. I recollect a party handbook for this correct? Have a nice weekend. Robert

[Don Scowen]

My apologies Robert, I thought you were referring to the particular varient being discussed here.

Cheers
Don

[burgerhaus]

Don Is the date of RZM inception a "hard fact"? Stephen probably knows..if the date of inception is a hard fact, an RZM traditions badge would therefore be a reproduction I would conclude. Have A Nice Weekend. Robert