Kreissieger and Reichssieger

[Richard]

I know these badges have come up for discussion and one of the criteria to determine an original has always been that the enamel background is supposed to be a cream color and not a glaring white. Now I see 2 examples on Bill Shea's website. One is a Reichssieger badge and it clearly has a white background and is described as such. Here is a link.

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPa...edals/m023.htm

It is marked Brehmer which is the maker that is the only one I have seen listed as fake.

Now the interesting part is that there is also a Kreissieger badge he has listed that is maker marked Tham. I've never heard of alleged fakes so marked. Here is the link.

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPa...dals/m233a.htm

What is interesting about this badge is that it appears to have and is described as having, white enamel not cream. I am beginning to wonder if the cream color is really a determining factor as this badge has all the characteristics of an original with the exception of the white enamel. I have some other points to make with a clearly original in a comparison with a supposed fake and some characteristics of which I find hard to believe would exist in both but do. I'll have to find the time to make some detailed scans and provide the analytical text. Hopefully I can accomplish this in the next few days. In the meantime, I would welcome any comment on these badges currently for sale.
Richard V

[Don Scowen]

The Reichssieger is a well known fake & the enamel of the Kreisseiger is the correct "off white" colour for this maker. Ivory would be a better term than cream which is a more yellow colour.

The Kreissiegers made by Tham have a slightly lighter white colour than the ones by the other makers of the 1939's. Although this could be an optical illusion due to the slightly different brown colour used by them for the rest of the badge.

Cheers
Don

[Ron Weinand]

Don is correct on this one.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria