Order of Eagle with swords

[Inspector Krogh]

Hank,
Indeed! All of us should think it's a great day when we learn something new...and we should always be receptive to it, just as importantly!

I was however unclear in my statement about silver gilt and the silver content mark.....
The marking, whether it be 800, 900, etc. indicates the silver content only,
and has nothing whatever to do with it being gilt. Silver of any "purity" (or other metals for that matter) can be gilded. I apologize for any confusion that may have been created.

G.

[Von Eisen]

Hi chaps, could someone please tell me if the tops of the wings are quiet right on the order roenk is inquiring about.I thought another such order I have seen had smoother curves in this area when viewed from the rear.

[Peter J.]

Simon, it's worse than that. The eagles are not soldered to the cross, rather integrated. This surely must be, what's normally referred to as, a lazer cut fake. Together with Greg's statement (still unchallanged) about one sole manufacturer, I can't see a future for this piece

KR
Peter

[Von Eisen]

Peter,thank you for some excellent information.Might I ask you guys another question ,did Godet also manufacture the eagle order merit cross 2nd class in silver brooch,and if so did they mark all their pieces with a makers mark or are there unmarked examples .

[WARLORD]

I believe these are a new breed of fake. The pin and marking is incorect. The Eagles are also not correct.

[Peter J.]

Simon, I take you are referring to the 4th class 1943 (2nd class 1937). To my knowledge, the 1937 issue was marked "900" on the pin (also the 1939 issue with the swords added) and the 1943 "900" and "21". The base of the pin was also marked "4" to indicate the class.

KR
Peter

[Von Eisen]

Peter, thank you for your reply my knowledge on these orders is most limited.Last year I picked up an order such as the one in question,with out swords ,and in silver.There are no marks on it what so ever,it certainly appears to be of five piece construction with great detail to the eagles.Do the lack of marks cast doubt as to it,s originality.Is it worth me showing it to you chaps if I can come across a camera.

[Peter J.]

Simon, with the risk of painting myself into a corner, I do believe these should be marked with the silver content. An image would be great . One problem though, you need to be an Assc. member in order to post images. Take my word for it, it's well invested $25.

KR
Peter

[Von Eisen]

Peter,as I say my knowledge is limited but having said this I have a very positive feeling about the item ,I should very much like to supply some images for you to view.I will invest in an Assc membership as you suggest and go from there.Thank you so much for you splended knowledge,happy new year to you.

[Inspector Krogh]

Simon, I take you are referring to the 4th class 1943 (2nd class 1937). To my knowledge, the 1937 issue was marked "900" on the pin (also the 1939 issue with the swords added) and the 1943 "900" and "21". The base of the pin was also marked "4" to indicate the class.

KR
Peter

To my understanding of the puzzle that this order presents, Peter is right on the bananas here....(an American euphemism for correct)!

If you have access to a book by John Angolia, Political and Civil Awards of the Third Reich (volume II of For Fuhrer and Fatherland), there are many pages devoted to the Adlerorden, including a user friendly table that cross references the different insignia of the order tied to both grade and time frame. Based on this, I too believe that your piece should be marked.
While certainly no reference is infallible, there are exceptions to every rule, etc.
etc., It seems that this table is fairly well accepted as being correct.
That being said, Detlev Niemann's guide indicates that the mark L/50 (another Godet mark) has been observed on insignia as well, but I don't know how or where it is applied.

As has been said before "a picture is worth a thousand words...if it's a good picture".

Any help or input out there from others on the forum??

G.

[Inspector Krogh]

By the way, shouldn't this thread be moved to the Political section forum, rather than General Wehrmacht Awards?

G.

[Von Eisen]

Many thanks for your valued imput Greg.Yes Peter and you are right the acid test will be some good pics.In the near future I hope.

[Peter J.]

Greg, the correct forum might attract some more responses to this intricate thread . I need to elaborate my previous statement though.

It has always been my firm belief that the eagles of the DAO are soldered to the cross. The same excerpt that you refer to (Angolia), shows a 4th class, unfortunately only the obverse, where the eagle is clearly soldered. With that in mind, I assumed that integrated eagles weren't correct for Godet DAO's. After looking at the images in Detlev's new price guide, the confusion increased. Maybe it's just the photo, but the two pictured 4th classes seems to be integrated and also levelled with the reverse. Any ideas

KR
Peter

[Inspector Krogh]

Peter,

I do see the photos referred to, and yes, the eagles do look like they are, or might be, integral with the back. Very difficult to say for sure from the photos.

I am of the firm belief as well that these birds should be soldered.......

We must certainly entertain the possibility of manufacturers other than Godet, and eagles that are integral to the backplate.

I can only say that personally, I would leave them for others to acquire.
But that's just one guy's opinion, as a wise Swede said once or twice!

G.

[aenobarbo]

Hello all, every Eagle Order 2nd class (1937-43) or 4th class (1943-45) I have seen have the eagles integral with the back. The rest of the DAO grades have soldered eagles.

If an example of 4th class cross exist with soldered eagles would be good and usefull to see a photo.

And about the crosses that started this thread: is not the first time I see one of these strange DAO. The old and wise Bill Stump classified them as fakes.

All best,

Pablo