Hitler uniform

[Bob Hritz]

I will ask Craig if he is going to split the group. I had heard an unsubstantiated rumor that the hat might be sold separately and the shirt separately and the rest of the medals and ephemera as one lot. I do not know if this is true or not. When I talk to Craig, I will ask him. I would hate to see the group separated, but I did make inquiry about the medals, which at that time, were not for sale separately.

Bob Hritz

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

concrete evidence ?
There are concrete evidences that nothing survived the Schaub's visit, which had the mission to erase such things when he was ordered to travel to München (c'mon, Schaub was one of the closest relatives to Hitler since the early days).
There are concrete evidences that the quality of the lot is not the one we can think to find on Hitler's items.
The are concrete evidences that the lot was in the successive hands of some people involved in selling/trying to sell/promote fakes/dubious/"unconfirmed" items.

The whole story is very similar to the Munich Pact Desk one (something not accounted for since 1945 or earlier, then out of the woods a veteran try to sell it with the help of dealers that had mixed reviews on the items they usually propose - to say the least), which the exception that it is now proven that the desk is fake (check the head of the eagle on original Hoffmann pictures and the head on the fake desk, case closed).

If this is true that some stuff can surface decades after the original looting (Quedlinburg treasure for example), the "discovery" of such highly debatable lot should be resume by "caution".

See You

Vince

[markus]

I will ask Craig if he is going to split the group. I had heard an unsubstantiated rumor that the hat might be sold separately and the shirt separately and the rest of the medals and ephemera as one lot. I do not know if this is true or not. When I talk to Craig, I will ask him. I would hate to see the group separated, but I did make inquiry about the medals, which at that time, were not for sale separately.

Bob Hritz

At least end of last or beginning of this year other items were also available, subject to sufficiently high bids well in the six-digits. (PM sent Bob)

[chen]

A very close friend seriously considered purchasing a piece of this group. After some consideration he came to the conclusión that the specific amount invested into militaría (!) did not make him feel very comfortable. Many early 20th century expressionist paintings ("Wiener Werkstätte") develop much more favorable valuewise and above all are way more liquid to sell/dispose of than A.H. ítems with a very limited customer base imo. Ítems above six-digits do become an "investment" for many people and that's were ROIs and liquidity do play a role, at least when you're commercially thinking. And when you can dispose of such amounts, many times you're in business and think commercially.

[chen]

I did not think that the "group" had been priced out individually. ??? In fact, I seriously doubt that it would have near the value if separated. How is a buyer ever to convince anyone that his "funeral" eagle or Iron Cross was Adolf Hitler's? This, IMO, is an example where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Absolutely!

[blitzkrieg gsd]

It's starting to look like we have two sets of opinions going on this group. There's good points being made on both sides. But I'm not seeing a majority of positive views. Every time I come back to the thread I'm seeing more questions being raised. I'm also starting to think there is some misinformation going on here. Just can't see this group being sold in pieces. Especially taking the tunic and visor out of the group that makes no sense. If you do that you are destroying the whole group. Now we have Markus telling us other items from the group were for sale or sold earlier this year. How could that have happened and most of us not hear about it? More and more info or rumors whatever you want to call it is coming out. This just keeps getting stranger and stranger.

[chen]

It is Craig's business and he does not need to inform any of us.

[blitzkrieg gsd]

A very close friend seriously considered purchasing a piece of this group. After some consideration he came to the conclusión that the specific amount invested into militaría (!) did not make him feel very comfortable. Many early 20th century expressionist paintings ("Wiener Werkstätte") develop much more favorable valuewise and above all are way more liquid to sell/dispose of than A.H. ítems with a very limited customer base imo. Ítems above six-digits do become an "investment" for many people and that's were ROIs and liquidity do play a role, at least when you're commercially thinking. And when you can dispose of such amounts, many times you're in business and think commercially.

Please don't take this the wrong way I mean no harm. But how can you even start to put a group like this in a conversation about investment art? I don't think you can look at any militaria the same way you do art as a investment that is. Yes your rite items above six figures become a investment for all of us that spend that kind of money on a piece. But you don't do it because your betting the value will increase. There's just not enough people in this hobby with that kind of money to spend. I'm starting to think the current owner of this group has made the mistake your friend was smart enough to avoid. If this was a piece of art just one person having the opinion it was a fake would kill the value. Are hobby is unique that we will have multiple opinions on both sides and the value will stay the same.

[blitzkrieg gsd]

It is Craig's business and he does not need to inform any of us.

Chen my friend that's where you are wrong. If he wants to keep business he needs to tell us. Why you ask because we are the ones who would be buying his wares.

[Bob Hritz]

Blitz,

Why don't you call Craig, or make a visit to see this group you were interested in purchasing if the provenance is acceptable to you? You can also call Ray Zyla, at Mohawk Arms, to get more information.

I was not aware it was any dealers responsibility to inform the public of each deal or offer he makes or receives. Can you cite examples of dealers who do this?

Authenticity is not determined by taking a poll.

Bob Hritz

[11C]

Chen my friend that's where you are wrong. If he wants to keep business he needs to tell us. Why you ask because we are the ones who would be buying his wares.

Unless, maybe Chen is the buyer........

[blitzkrieg gsd]

Blitz,

Why don't you call Craig, or make a visit to see this group you were interested in purchasing if the provenance is acceptable to you? You can also call Ray Zyla, at Mohawk Arms, to get more information.

I was not aware it was any dealers responsibility to inform the public of each deal or offer he makes or receives. Can you cite examples of dealers who do this?

Authenticity is not determined by taking a poll.

Bob Hritz

Bob I don't think you understood what I was saying my friend. I don't mean he needs to tell the public about every offer or deal he is involved in. Authenticity may not be determined by taking a poll that's true. But is it not the dealers responsibility to prove authenticity? That's the point I'm trying to make here he would need to sell me on the groups authenticity. When you go to buy a new car the salesman sells it by telling you about it. Then you decide if that's the rite one for you.

[Jo Rivett]

"Judge the item, not the seller". Or is that just a convenient phrase or one-way street?

No, sorry, not when prices over a million dollars are mentioned, then you need to do your homework like you have never done it before, INCL. a thorough check on the people who have owned it, sold it, had it, etc...
And Craig Gottlieb, has been caught red-handed calling Wolf (Thats a play on words like you have never read before) so many times now that no matter what he ever has, it will be tainted from word go, simply because his history-twisting, lying fingers have touched it.

By the reading on this thread, it seems any commission will be split a few ways then ...

You cannot beat someone senseless and then turn around and give them a hug, the seller is the problem, not only with this lot, with anything he gets his hands on.

Why do you want me to discuss the item only? To detract from the ABYSMAL track record of the seller? To detract from the horror stories, on this forum alone, of the times where this seller has lied to all of us, invented that he "acquired things from vets" when it has been proved in at least one case that he never did - but claimed in ALL CAPS that he did, and that he even interviewed the vet.
You only have to read his latest GAU book to see that he does not know what he is talking about, and invents his own history to fit the crap he sells.
No, in a special case like Craig Gottlieb, i will most certainly not leave his reputation out of any deal/sale/discussion, because it is a MOST RELEVANT part indeed.
Sorry, i realize that the truth hurts, but it is what it is. The seller is a known liar, a known seller of fantasy and fakes, a known twister of the truth, a known inventer of "facts" and according to the American National Enquirer this year, a "Grave robber" to boot.

[Seiler]

Tells it like it is.

[der-hase-fee]

I did not think that the "group" had been priced out individually. ??? In fact, I seriously doubt that it would have near the value if separated. How is a buyer ever to convince anyone that his "funeral" eagle or Iron Cross was Adolf Hitler's? This, IMO, is an example where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Groups are being ripped apart on a regular basis to increase overall profits by selling off individual items.

With the proper documentation provenance could be kept intact.