Cufflinks on estand

[Wim Vangossum]

So in fact it is partly period fake. They would never allow the selling of cufflinks in the form of real party pins. But even this was forbidden, I know weird things happened and the RZM made sanctions against this.

The people who bought from this stuff need a clear documented proof that leads back to the unusual discovery of genuine period kitsch. Within a decade everyone will say they are post war fake!

About enamel: Real enamel is not the issue to proof originality. There are places enough were quality human labor costs close to nothing and even in Germany they produced fakes with real enamel since the end of war.

Regards, Wim

[Gaspare]

" So in fact it is partly period fake."

No, they are as authentic as anything else that was made during the 3rd reich period. Early on a lot of manufactures got away with certain things until they became concrete law. Even afterwards. RZM certified button manufacturers also made cufflinks from their buttons that were available private purchase, to include SS,, faux party pin style [no words on them] etc..
The collectors that bought them know what they are doing because most of them either specialize in 3rd reich jewelry or is at least familiar with it.. It is a niche area of collecting and we're glad about it...

A decade from now you and everyone else will also need "clear documented proof" for most of your items. ,with these at least there is such proof............

dolchmann07, interesting post you made,,should have left it up.........

[sjl]

There was tons of this period kitch up to 1933-34, known as patriotic or sympathizer jewelery, like having the stars and stripes on your tie bar or the maple leaf in Canada. The Nazi Party liked having its symbol everywhere - good PR. It was only in 1933 that the laws "for the protection of party symbols" came in. The RZM protected items in use by the party, or copies of actual party insignia. After the adoption of the swastika flag in 1934 (?), the swastika was the national symbol. There were protections against its misuse, but there was all kinds of enamelled jewelery with the swastika after that date, as long as it didn't look like NSDAP insignia.

[Dmv]

" So in fact it is partly period fake."
A decade from now you and everyone else will also need "clear documented proof" for most of your items. ,with these at least there is such proof............

Ok and what or where is the "proove" on them? apart from a story and a modern photo of jewelery put together? (which we also see on the fake Berlin hoard skulls)
Believe me I hope and want to believe the hoard find, but as you all know you have to be very cautious in this hobby. And still I don't like the enamell, reminds me of recent eastern european fakes (also glass enamel!), look at the white on them, that's not white! So not saying they are, but certainly look like, which would prevent me and lots of others from buying them. I don't even like the way Palatin is stamped on it, sorry.
(Please don't see this post as an attack but as discussion )

[RonR]

More "period patriotic jewelry" as Stephen said.

A pair of cufflinks.

Veteran acquired many years ago...............



.......................

[Wolf100]

Ok and what or where is the "proove" on them? apart from a story and a modern photo of jewelery put together? (which we also see on the fake Berlin hoard skulls)
Believe me I hope and want to believe the hoard find, but as you all know you have to be very cautious in this hobby. And still I don't like the enamell, reminds me of recent eastern european fakes (also glass enamel!), look at the white on them, that's not white! So not saying they are, but certainly look like, which would prevent me and lots of others from buying them. I don't even like the way Palatin is stamped on it, sorry.
(Please don't see this post as an attack but as discussion )

No problem. So, please show us some recent eastern enamel fakes to compare. And if you have it in your possession, other period cuff links.

[Wim Vangossum]

Although I had a much too quick "Fake" opinion about this stuff, I really like this discussion and always want to learn. The showed patriotic stuff is new for me. I feel very comfortable with the cuff links like showed by RonR. I was aware from these versions. It's only much more difficult to swallow the glittery pieces from the hoard.
I keep saying that I wouldn't dare to buy these things myself if I wasn't the guy myself who discoverd them on the attic of the manufacturer in question. On the group picture they look really kitch and fancy. Could they be some try -outs?
But again, this can only be the reason because I'm not to much busy with period costum jewelery.

@ Gaspare: I called it period fake because I once got a RZM article from Jo Rivett were a certain version of a frauenschaft was described as fake and against the rules, and by this way the exsiting pieces had to be destroyed according to the RZM. So I assume that if the got aware of it, the took sanctions and called these "fakes".
But of course this has nothing to do with a modern fake. Everthing that was made back then is in every way original. I want to make that clear.

Regards, Wim

[Gaspare]

The photo is very misleading. They are just a small lot the poster bought. With the hoard is many many more, and many that are unfinished. Yes, they are all mint as they are NOS [New Old Stock] and were packed away nicely.

None are RZM marked. They are just a hoard found in an old building. As far as proof,,please! who has proof for all their items? No one. In fact these have way better proof then any CoA or another collector saying' I'm in books and I have it so its good' etc..

In fact there is much proof. with the pieces was a load of period documentation of the manufacturer. They were approved by the RZM and made stic pins and other insignia.

I would say there is nothing odd about them at all. The party pin looking patterns are rare and I'd bet there weren't many made.
As far as the laws, they were broken. I have DAF, BDM, RAD, SS, SA etc. period rings that were made in the 40s way after the law. There are also rings with almost all the Luftwaffe award badges, official awards, private purchase rings.The have official emblems on them but are private purchase. This was done thruout the war..

[sjl]

Here is a thread about period patriotic cuff links from another forum with lots of photos: http://www.worldwarmilitaria.com/for...ight=cuff+link

[Waffe]

Here is a set of cufflinks and matching tie-bar that I acquired recently. The person I got them from gave me the name of the veteran and the number of his regiment, and where he was located when he got them. They are unmarked, and pretty high quality- not mass produced in my opinion. The roundels are small, around 15mm in diameter.






Regards,
Kent G.

[der-hase-fee]

Ok and what or where is the "proove" on them? apart from a story and a modern photo of jewelery put together? (which we also see on the fake Berlin hoard skulls)
Believe me I hope and want to believe the hoard find, but as you all know you have to be very cautious in this hobby. And still I don't like the enamell, reminds me of recent eastern european fakes (also glass enamel!), look at the white on them, that's not white! So not saying they are, but certainly look like, which would prevent me and lots of others from buying them. I don't even like the way Palatin is stamped on it, sorry.
(Please don't see this post as an attack but as discussion )

Is this a new TR collecting area, or just another cultural item or what ? Who'd want any of these in their collection ? Tired of hunting ?

[Gaspare]

d-h-f , I'm sure what ever you collect there are some that won't like it either. To each their own...............

[Wim Vangossum]

Well, knowledge is everything. I looked through the links and see this is an area that I wasn't very aware of. Only the typical tri -color with swastika was known by me. But you have all convinced me now.


Regards, Wim

[weissthor]

Sorry, i would post some more pics, but i am not able for

[sgstandard]

Jewelry

Cloisonne enamel was used extensively on automobile insignia well into the late 60's. I personally made cloisonne enamel jewelry in high school art class in 1963. This type of enamel is, in effect, melted glass. The idea that you can prove these cufflinks, etc. are pre-1946 manufacture by using a hot pin is absurd.