Very rare Bullion HJ patch?

[oldtrcollector]

I picked this up a few days ago, and was told it was a very rare HJ Studentenbund Bullion patch. It is (I was told) hand-made. Please consider this before you declare it a "repro". I was wondering whether it was genuine, and what to ask for it on estand. Thanks for any assistance.

[oldtrcollector]

I would really appreciate some opinions on this eagle. I don't want to put it on e stand if it is determined to be a repro, although I am 90% certain it is not a repro.

[oldtrcollector]

Opinion wanted on eagle

So nobody wants to give me their opinion of this eagle? What happens now? Does the fact nobody spoke up means it is ok?

[zander]

From J R Anglia HJ VOL 2

The variation shown is a good match to yours ,

Hope that helps a bit

[oldtrcollector]

Thanks

From J R Anglia HJ VOL 2

The variation shown is a good match to yours ,

Hope that helps a bit

Thanks for taking the time to find the photo of a patch like mine, and posting it! I guess I will put it on e stand.

[Arran]

Ya, I like the construction of yours and have no problem accepting it as an original...

[Rick C]

I too like the construction. (Of course it also helps seeing the similar eagles posted thanx to Zander.)

Not quite on point but how does a guy that just joined us in January with a mere 88 posts (which I've reviewed) get his sorry butt booted off the WAF? This has to be a record of some kind. Who's corn flakes did this guy relieve himself in?

RC

[Gary Symonds]

3

[Gary Symonds]

Here is my example of this HJ Bullion patch. Opinions please.
Gary

[Arran]

I like your example too. Like some original Diplomatic sleeve insignia, these can sometimes look a bit off in proportion...

[Rick C]

Well, I contacted Bill about his eagle as I tend to look for odd & interesting stuff (even though I have only one other piece of HJ stuff) and thought this eagle would be a nice addition. I have it in hand.

It appears to be a very well made piece and is about 4.75" long. Different styles of bullion thread, tightly done & the swastika is embroidered 'over' the diamond which gives it a raised relief look which is something I've never noted before in other TR eagles.

Couple of questions come to mind in handling it & viewing it under magnification.

1.] Aside from black painted black ring on the visor cap's national cockard I've never seen bullion insignia with painted features. This eagle's triangle & swastika are clearly painted. Some of the red bled into the silver bullion & the black of the swastika has been degraded with age.

Does anyone have experience with other bullion insignia reflecting painted features?

[Rick C]

2.] The other question I have I'm afraid falls into one of the more standard categories. In looking at the reverse the odd thing is - in the photo below you can clearly see both bullion wrapped threads & plain old threads. Oddly the UV reaction appears not with the regular white thread that you can see (that's totally dead to UV) but with the metal wrapped thread where some of the bullion wrapping is missing/frayed away.

Had it, at one point or another, been hit with a modern cleaner I would expect the regular threads to react having absorbed the brighteners. Clearly, this doesn't but the reaction from 'inside' the metal wrapped threads... Did their period materials include synthetics that glowed which were wrapped with aluminum? Were it a fake I keep thinking one would see more of them yet the UV glow does bug me.

[Gary Symonds]

2.] The other question I have I'm afraid falls into one of the more standard categories. In looking at the reverse the odd thing is - in the photo below you can clearly see both bullion wrapped threads & plain old threads. Oddly the UV reaction appears not with the regular white thread that you can see (that's totally dead to UV) but with the metal wrapped thread where some of the bullion wrapping is missing/frayed away.

Had it, at one point or another, been hit with a modern cleaner I would expect the regular threads to react having absorbed the brighteners. Clearly, this doesn't but the reaction from 'inside' the metal wrapped threads... Did their period materials include synthetics that glowed which were wrapped with aluminum? Were it a fake I keep thinking one would see more of them yet the UV glow does bug me.

Rick:
The UV test only applies to the color white. Whether the thread is "synthetic" is irrelevant, since the only issue is, has the thread be brightened white with what are called "optical brighteners"? Your UV photo clearly shows a reaction by the white threads which brighten as indicated. Contrary to collector popular believe, these chemicals that react to UV light, were added to make a whiter, and more stable white since the late 30's.

As unusual as the painting on the your bullion is, the insignia look original to me. If a textile made before the late 30s glows, that would indicate problems.
Gary

[Rick C]

Hi Gary,

Thanx for the followup comment. Like you, I think it's authentic but, my fears were more for eventual resale (were that to come up) some time in the future. Collectors are very often misinformed & tend to flee from anything that reacts to UV rather than consider the reasons why such a reaction may be taking place.

Where there's so much white thread exposed on the reverse of this eagle which doesn't react and the only UV reaction appearing to be the thread wrapped in metal, it leads me to lean more towards surmising that white threads under the metal wrap absorbed the aluminum chlorohydrate (a bi-product of decomposition) and thus only it is reacting to UV light.

Oh well. A spectacular eagle. I'm keeping it. Again, thanx! RC

[Rick C]

We don't often see these birds so where I stumbled on one at Lakeside Trader (https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=21340) I thought it couldn't hurt to post the images:

(two grand ~ yikes!)