Post Your Pics of Form 4 NSDAP Tunics in Wear!

[stonemint]

Artur Greiser

Credit: BlondKnight

[stonemint]

Eigruber & Speer

[stonemint]

Schirach at the Tag der Deutsche Kunst. Note his is wearing Form 4 insignia, but his visor is for an HJ leader.

He is also wearing an HJ armband with an HJ leader's dagger.

[TxGauleiter]

Schirach at the Tag der Deutsche Kunst. Note his is wearing Form 4 insignia, but his visor is for an HJ leader.

He is also wearing an HJ armband with an HJ leader's dagger.

Is VBS leaning in to speak Max Amann?

To Schirach's left is Phillip Bouhler, a Reichsleiter who is wearing his SS uniform here.
this seems curious to me as I would assume his RL status is greater than his SS status.

[Tony T-S]

Boulher is usually seen in his SS uniform. I hadn't seen him in an RL uniform until I saw a photo here.

[TxGauleiter]

Consulting my files, you are correct. I have more of him in SS garb than Reichsleiter.
Here is one I picked up from somewhere online at some point, Form 4 of, course.

[Tom B]

Great thread ! Great photos !! Tom

[Tony T-S]

That's a great clipping of Bouhler. The SD guy just behind and to his appears to be the same guy whose sitting beside him in the colour shot above. There is another photo in the same sequence showing him talking to the guys (out of shot) that we can see in the colour photo above. That shot shows the SD guy very well.

I have always been interested in Bouhler. Not sure what to make of him. Plenty of power behind the scenes, but some rather sad achievements (T4 etc) to his name. He was there from the beginning, most often in the background

[Br. James]

I agree, Tony...and Bouhler is one of my long-time 'favorites,' as well! So is Hans Lammers -- guess that makes me a RK groupie?!?! If so, I plead guilty as charged!

The idea of what was appropriate uniform wear among the highest-ranking Nazis seems to have been based primarily on personal taste. I recall recently seeing a photo of Albert Forster and Artur Greiser standing together at some event -- my impression is that the photo came from the pre-1939 time when Forster was Gauleiter of Danzig and Greiser was his Deputy Gauleiter and also the Reichsstatthalter. Forster was wearing his best PL uniform as Gauleiter and Greiser was wearing his SS-Oberführer uniform... They were certainly rivals then, so perhaps Greiser didn't want to appear to be subservient to Forster by wearing his Deputy's uniform; for his part, Forster was also an SS-Gruppenführer at that same time!

Though Lammers had the position to wear his Governmental uniform as Secretary of State and Chief of the Reichschancellery, just as his colleague, Otto Meissner, wore that uniform as Secretary of State and Chief of the President's Chancellery, in all of the pix of the Reichstag in session, one sees Dr. Lammers dressed in his SS uniform... So too with Bouhler, whose career in the NSDAP was second to none -- after all, his NSDAP Membership Number was 12!! -- yet he was certainly a bureaucrat among bureaucrats, just as was Franz Xaver Schwarz, another favorite of mine and one who worked long and hard in the background. But unlike Schwarz, who seemed to prize his Reichsleiter's uniform highly -- he too was an SS-Obergruppenführer, though he was seldom seen in that uniform -- Bouhler was more likely to be seen in his SS rig than his Reichsleiter's.

These are just a few of the numerous examples I've noticed over the years!

Br. James

[Tony T-S]

You would have expected Schwarz to wear his Oberst Gruppenfuhrer uniform when promoted, but I've only ever seen it on him in the painting on this thread. Yes, agreed. Lammers is another interesting example.

[stonemint]

Here is a pic of Bouhler's adjutant at the same event:

[stonemint]

A glum-looking Goebbels. Frick is 3rd from left. Bouhler is in between Frick and the Heer officer.

[Tony T-S]

Thanks Stonemint, that's the one. I had no idea who the PL guys were until I saw the previous shot. I wonder why Schirach decided on the HJ arm band rather than the PL one for this event?

[Mark Costa]

There were several Reichsleiters that wore the SS uniforms that was actually detrimental to their power. Bouhler was certainly one of these men as were Walther Darre and Otto Dietrich. For some reason these men thought that by wearing the SS uniform that they were showing their status in the elite organization when in reality they were actually showing others that they were under the control of Himmler. Which suited Himmler just fine. Franz Schwarz had a falling out with Himmler in the mid 1930's and rarely ever wore his SS uniform again after that time period. He was one of the smart ones. He is seen a only a couple of times wearing his SS Oberst-gruppenfuhrer uniform. In fact his promotion to that rare rank was a payback for a loan that Schwarz had granted Himmler so he could build a house for his mistress. Believe it or not Himmler was actually quite proper about finances and needed that loan which Bormann was able to secure from Schwarz from the Party Treasury. Himmler's granting honorary rank in the SS to top leaders was nothing more than trying to make it appear that these men were under his authority. Hence some Reichsleiters and Gauleiters lost that appearance of power by accepting. Speer was very smart in refusing a promotion to Oberst-gruppenfuhrer for this very reason.

Mark Costa

[stonemint]

There were several Reichsleiters that wore the SS uniforms that was actually detrimental to their power. Bouhler was certainly one of these men as were Walther Darre and Otto Dietrich. For some reason these men thought that by wearing the SS uniform that they were showing their status in the elite organization when in reality they were actually showing others that they were under the control of Himmler. Which suited Himmler just fine. Franz Schwarz had a falling out with Himmler in the mid 1930's and rarely ever wore his SS uniform again after that time period. He was one of the smart ones. He is seen a only a couple of times wearing his SS Oberst-gruppenfuhrer uniform. In fact his promotion to that rare rank was a payback for a loan that Schwarz had granted Himmler so he could build a house for his mistress. Believe it or not Himmler was actually quite proper about finances and needed that loan which Bormann was able to secure from Schwarz from the Party Treasury. Himmler's granting honorary rank in the SS to top leaders was nothing more than trying to make it appear that these men were under his authority. Hence some Reichsleiters and Gauleiters lost that appearance of power by accepting. Speer was very smart in refusing a promotion to Oberst-gruppenfuhrer for this very reason.

Mark Costa

Mark, excellent analysis--I never considered the uniform choice in that manner.