I have a political leader's tunic piped in white and named to a Kriesleiter. However. The collar tabs facing material looks more like an orts level brown than a kries level brown. Everything looks unmessed with. The piping and tabs are expertly applied with a fine white thread that does not react to black light. The tunic is dated 1938 which predates the introduction of the last pattern tabs? Any explanation?
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The picture is not really good enough for me to comment much on the color of the brown, but it does appear OK.
Many pre-1939 tunics were updated with the new insignia, so this tunic dated 1938 having that post-39 tab is not a problem.
I do have a problem with this being a Kreisleiter tunic, that rank is too low for a Kreisleiter.
The tab is a Gemeinschaftsleiter and the regulations spell out that the lowest rank for a post-39 Kreisleiter is a Hauptabschnittsleiter. -
Thank you for your reply, Jeff. Now I am really confused. My Angolia book lists this tab and many lower rank tabs as being "utilized at all levels". I will show another pic of the tab as well as the name tag in the tunic.Comment
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Is "Kreisl." an abbreviation for Kreisleiter?Comment
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KREIS CAN BE AN ABBREVIATION FOR KREISLEITUNG, THE LEVEL OF SERVICE. MANY COLLECTORS FOR SIMPLICITY SHORTEN OR ABBREVIATE TERMS USED, LOOSING THE TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD. THE MOST COMMON IS THE WORDS " ORTS" IN LIEU OF ORTSGRUPPEN. THE FULL TERM DENOTES THE LEVEL THE INDIVIDUAL SERVED ATOriginally posted by John Huff View PostComment
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John:
This has always been a problem in trying to explain the 1939 series of tabs, ranks and functions. If one looks there are no collar tabs for an Ortsgruppenleiter or Kreisleiter. But there was an armband for each. Hence the tabs denoted the rank and pay grade and the armband denoted the function. Certain ranks held could hold certain functions. A good exmaple would be the title of Deputy Gauleiter. In the 1933-1939 series there were actually collar tabs for a deputy gauleiter. But in the 1939-45 series there are not. But the deputy gauleiter armband exists. So three men could hold different ranks such as Dienstleiter, Oberdienstleiter and Hauptdienstleiter but all three could be deputy gauleiters -- the ranks ares different but function is the same. So your tunic here is part of the Kreisleitung but its the armband that denotes the function. The Kreisleiter would have had higher ranked collar tabs and a Kreisleiter armband. We really need to see the armband to denote the function of this individual.
Hope this helps and does not confuse you even more.
Mark CostaComment
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I think I understand in that there were many people serving at the Kries level -- from the little guy fetching coffee on up to the Kreisleiter -- the head guy at the top of the level. But in regards to the name tag, would that be a proper translation? "Heer Krieslevel Schmitt" ? Would "Kreisletung" be used in association with a name?
Unfortunately. the armband has been removed from the tunic....Comment
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The first word is an abbreviation for Kreisleiter and the name is Schmitt. The date is August 1938.Comment
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Unless your camera flash is washing out the true brown color of your tab, it appears to be a post war fake built up on an Orts level tab.
This is the correct Kreis color for that tab/rank.Comment
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A couple final pics and thanks for the help!Comment
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Can you see if the color is due to fading by glimpsing under the eagle or one of the pips? Doubtful but a remote possibility based on the heavy oxidation of the metal parts. The tunic itself doesn't look like it had a fading issue.
Richard VComment
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I thought about that but there appears to be no fading under one eagle wing or under the collar, pocket flaps, etc.Comment
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how about a pic of the back side of the collar/ collar-tab area so we can see the stitching?Comment
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