New HJ Leader Tunic - Need Help!

[DougO]

I picked up this HJ Leader Tunic. I don't have a lot of experience with these, so I have a few questions.
The upper section of the collar appears to be a slightly different color than the rest of the tunic. This may be perfectly normal, but I would like ot know for sure. Also, I would like to know if the cut of the uniform looks correct for HJ and if this cut was exclusive to HJ or not (i.e. could this be a tunic from another branch - like RAD or something - converted to HJ).
Thanks in advance for your help, Doug

[DougO]

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[DougO]

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[DougO]

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[Bob Coleman]

Doug-
There Is Little Information Available On The Political School Formations. However, This Is An Odd Mixture Of Insignia. I Have Never Seen An Ordensburg Tunic With Either H J Insignia Or Standard Plain Pebbled Buttons. Does The Tunic Have A R Z M Label? If Not, Is There Evidence Inside The Inner Pocket Of A Tag That Has Been Removed? The Tunic Itself Looks Like A Sturmabteilung Tunic. I Would Need Some Logical, Documented Evidence To Accept This Tunic As Period As Is.

[DougO]

Bob,

Thank you for your reply.

Angolia's book on the NSDAP and SA says that the Ordensburgen cufftitle was 'Probably worn by staff members in general that supported the entire education system.' I have never seen an SA tunic with no cuffs, as is the case with this tunic. The tunic has no tag inside.

To me, it looks closest to the cut of the Gefolgsschaftsfuhrer overcoat illustration #54 or the NPEA Ehrenwache tunic illustration #87 in Brian Davis' 'Deutsche Uniformen im Dritten Reich 1933-1945'. It is nearly identical to the NPEA tunic shown.

Unfortunately, I do not have Angolia's series on HJ. Perhaps someone who is familiar with that series can be of assistance. Perhaps this in indeed an NPEA tunic???

Doug

[Bob Coleman]

Doug-
In The Third Reich Educational System, H J Insignia Would Only Be Worn With Individuals Connected With The Adolf Hitler Schule Or Early Prewar Officials Of The N P E A. The Black Ordensburg Cufftitle Was Abolished Prior To The Onset Of The War. The Tunic Appears To Be Of War Era Manufacture. Further, The S A Wehrmannschaft And Gebergsjaeger Wore A Brown Tunic Without Cuffs. I Cannot Think Of Any Other Prewar Tunic That Did Not Have French Cuffs. Once Again, I Personally Would Need
Strong Photographic Evidence Or Prescribed Regulations To Endorse This Piece.

[Paul70]

Can we see a photo of the back? Does it have a military style flat back or buttons for belt ramps?

Paul

[stonemint]

Doug--check with Ron Weinand--he is about as on top of this confusing area (NPEA) as one can be....

[DougO]

Here is a photo of the back of the tunic. As you can see, it has the belt ramps. Anyone else have any input on this one???
Doug

[Paul70]

I have studied my HJ leaders tunic with this one. The cut is identical to mine, seams, buttons on rear, etc. Except my coat has French cuffs, is made of a finer quality of wool, and the collar is consistent with the rest of the coat.

The color looks a little different but that could be the photos etc.

My jacket is considered the Third design coat. If the RAD, SA, Org Todt has the same cut I do not know??????????

Do the boards have stiffners on them or are they floppy?

Hope this helps.

Paul

[DougO]

Paul,
Thanks for your post. The tunics do look pretty similar. After examining the collar in detail over the weekend, I am convinced that it is original to the jacket.
The straps are the softer type. I believe that the tunic is an HJ leader tunic (lowest rank eligiable to wear the four pocket tunic).
Not sure when the armband was applied, but we all know that many insignia were worn well past the date that the regulations changed.
Doug