Staingrad documents, Generalmajor signature

[luckynucky]

Dear firends,

Here are two award docs for one person.

Issued in last dates of Nov.1942.

The thing is (as document expert said) that on both documents signed by Ferdinand Heim. But he was a 14 Pz.Div. commander til July, right?

And the soldier was from 295 ID...

I'm confused. How to knit it all together?

And yes...I also agree that signature of Generalmajor on doc of wound badge in silver it's weird..doesn't it?

[Brian R]

Great set of documents - it is very interesting and unusual to see a Generalmajor and division commander sign a Wound Badge citation.

The reason for the overlap in units is that certain elements of a unit could fall under the temporary command of another unit. As such, the commanding unit - even if temporary - would be responsible for making the award. This guy was almost definitely wounded and decorated for bravery all for/in the same action, meaning his bravery award was directly related to his being severely wounded.

[Yubari]

as a EK2 document and EK2 medal collector I would be very interested in such little grouping to do some further research!

[luckynucky]

Great set of documents - it is very interesting and unusual to see a Generalmajor and division commander sign a Wound Badge citation.

The reason for the overlap in units is that certain elements of a unit could fall under the temporary command of another unit. As such, the commanding unit - even if temporary - would be responsible for making the award. This guy was almost definitely wounded and decorated for bravery all for/in the same action, meaning his bravery award was directly related to his being severely wounded.

Thank you!

I had the same opinion.

I think everithing was possible in Stalingrad pocket.



Colleagues, may I ask, how much approximately can this set cost?

[Archi]

Hello !

This could certainly be an interesting set.

A possible connection between the unit FEB 295/7 and 14. Pz.Div. was already explained by Brian R.
(The unit designation points to the 7. FEB resp. Marsch-Btl., that was sent to the 295. Inf.Div., also fighting at Stalingrad).
It was very common, that such units were subordinated to a unit close by and thrown into battle.

=> But : What I have really difficulties in understanding :
Genmaj./Gen.Lt. Heim had been appointed Komm.Gen. of roem. 48. Pz.K. on 1.11.1942.
(This Korps played an important role in the failure to stop the Soviet breakthrough after 23.11.42)

According to the divisional history, it is clear that he physically left his old division on 31.10.
After the Soviet attack, the Kdo. 48. Pz.Korps was definetly outside the cauldron, while 14. Pz.Div. was inside.

Is there a possible explanation why :
a) General Heim handled documents belonging to 14. Pz.Div. outside the cauldron (and during those days) ?!
b) he still signed as Kdr. of 14. PzDiv. (which he wasn't anymore) ?!

Best regards,

Archi

[luckynucky]

And (it's important), documents don't look fake, are you agree?

One important point Jason Mark singled out:

Due to the Stalingrad debacle – and Hitler's belief that Heim was partly responsible – he was ordered back to Germany on 26 November and then arrested. I find it hard to imagine that he was signing award documents at this time

So. What we have? Documents from 29 November signed by Heim who left a pocket 26th November

[Simon O.]

In addition to the points made about Heim there are other issues that raise questions. The unit designation 295/7 is meaningless to me in this context of the Felderstaz Btl. I have however seen mention of a Leichte Kolonne 295/7 or 7./295 and that would certainly tie in to the rank.

I've also seen a couple of examples of Heim's signature and those i have seen don't have the long flourish at the end, just a straight /

I'd be interested to see if he was signing documents as Generalleutnant prior to 29 Nov. and if he had actually left on the 26 Nov.

[luckynucky]

Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon 100/5

[Archi]

Hello !

Regarding the unit topic :
I would say "unit designation 295/7 is meaningless" is a bit too strong.
However, it is correct, that this type of designation for replacement transports ceased to exist in autumn 1942.
The example shown by luckynucky would be the 5th replacement transport to 100. Jäger-Div. and then incorporated into Jg.Rgt. 227.

I have tried to explain this topic in detail (with some official docs) :
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...9&postcount=12

Therefore, I wouldn't use the unit argument, to exclude anything.

But the other questions raised by Simon are more crucial (and should be possible to be clarifed).

In addition, I would be curious if it is at all possible that a high ranked officer signs as Kdr. of unit,
where he had already been replaced and is aware of that ?!

Best regards,

Archi

[Brian R]

When I first responded to this message, I didn't even look at them in detail - I saw the 295. ID and 14. PD reference and figured it would make sense. Then, the posts have come in and a number of great points have been raised. I must say, I am a bit baffled by these documents. There is too much that does not make sense but they just don't seem like fakes, or seem like fakes we typically see. They are really convincing and, if they are fake, they just do't seem to fit in with the junk we often see as presented as original. Perhaps someone was signing off for Heim, even after he was gone. I agree, the signature is similar, but it's just not consistent with others I've seen. Just a quick search on the WAF shows two other signatures that are similar but not quite right.

[Simon O.]

Hello !

Regarding the unit topic :
I would say "unit designation 295/7 is meaningless" is a bit too strong.
However, it is correct, that this type of designation for replacement transports ceased to exist in autumn 1942.
The example shown by luckynucky would be the 5th replacement transport to 100. Jäger-Div. and then incorporated into Jg.Rgt. 227.

I have tried to explain this topic in detail (with some official docs) :
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...9&postcount=12

Therefore, I wouldn't use the unit argument, to exclude anything.

But the other questions raised by Simon are more crucial (and should be possible to be clarifed).

In addition, I would be curious if it is at all possible that a high ranked officer signs as Kdr. of unit,
where he had already been replaced and is aware of that ?!

Best regards,

Archi

Thanks for the correction, i've always thought of these as marsch btl. or kolonne and hadn't come across using the term feld-ersatz btl in connection with these columns until now.