Some more Generals for JAIME.... or others !

[Lionel H.]

On the right of this Pic most probably taken 8.42, the "Lehrgruppenkommandeur" of the School, Rittmeister Horst NIEMACK wearing KC with oakleaves...

As Niemack got both KC and later Oakleaves as serving in Aufkl.Abt.5 under the command of Allmendinger, both officers knew us very well, and were perhaps friends, who knows....

This Pic has been taken during a "Beer Evening" at Krampnitz...

They were others AA.5 Officers who served in K. at that time, both Holders of the german Cross : Rittmeister Bettag and Ballhorn... (this Pic comes from the private Album of Walter Bettag).

So, this could be the first Explanation : a private invitation from Niemack to his former Commander, Generalleutnant Allmendinger...

But what could have been the reason of Allmendinger being in Berlin / Potsdam at that time ?? Well, at the beginning of January 1943, otherwise said, some few Months after this Pic has been taken, Allmendinger was commanded to Berlin as responsible of "Divisions-Führer-Lehrgänge" (Divisional Commander Formations)... I don't know if these Formations were physically organised in Krampnitz or most probably Döberitz, some few kilometers away....

Considering all these elements, and thanks to your Support, Jaime, Kerry and others Friends here on the Forum, I am convinced that Allmendinger is the General pictured here !

[Jaime]

A plausible and very well reasoned explanation, Lionel. I think you have answered your own question yourself. Well done, my friend!


Cheers,


Jaime

[Lionel H.]

This is the best original Portrait from A. I have in my collection. No beer, somebit more serious... This one has been dedicated to the Family of the fallen Oberwachtmeister Adolf Hainle, 2./A.A.5, KIA 22.5.42.... Dedicated "der Familie Hainle in treuer Verbundenheit. Allmendinger"

[Lionel H.]

Other from my collection. Allmendinger speaking during the burial of KC Holder Hainle. Pic taken 5 minutes ago with electric light, apologize for the low Quality...

[s.pak]

Almost impossible I mean....

General der Panzertruppen Leo Freiherr Geyr von Schweppenburg , XXIV Armee-Korps


patrick

[Archi]

Hello !

Very interesting and detailed research done by Lionel and good work by Jaime and kerryboo identifying Allmendinger !
Also very nice additional photos and thanks for sharing those !

Some additional informations on Allmendinger and his connection to the Div.Führer-Lehrgänge :
The Divisional history of 5. Jäger-Division mentions him as beeing on leave at least from: mid July 42 to some time in August 42.
(but he should have remained Div.Kdr. until late 42/ early 1943).

I do not know, when exactly the decision was made, to institute those "Lehrgänge für Divisions-Führer".
But the first course of these started on 18.01.1943, and was likely led by Gen. Werner Kempf :
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner..._%28General%29
It seems likely, that Gen.Lt. Allmendinger was another member of the teaching staff.
(I just mention this, because Keilig says something very different).

I couldn't find any reference, where exactly these courses took place. (That's why I jump in here and what I would like to know) :
Best link on these courses I know, is this :
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=122616
From that link (and other sources) the courses took place somewhere in Berlin in 1943 and then moved to
Hirschberg (Sachsen, WK IV) from early 1944 onward.
From a quick look at the participants, I couldn't find anyone related to the Panzertruppe.
To summarize : I doubt, that those courses would have taken place at Krampnitz and that this photo is related to them.
(I am aware, that "idea" could have been stated in a much more direct way ).

My private guesses, why he showed up at Krampnitz :
- It could be somehow related to his leave or his promotion (1.8.42 to Gen.Lt.) and celebrating this, with well known comrades
- sometimes, high ranking officers had to report to Halder, the OKH or the HPA, on their way back to the front.
(At least early in the war. Could be another reason in 1942 ...)

- Regarding #4 :
General, entering a car of GvB Division : It would be interesting to know a timeframe ...
(perhaps patrick/s.pak is correct).

- Regarding #5 :
This seems to be the only one still open ?!

Best regards,

Archi

[kerryboo]

Hello archi,
As I said on 29 October, I believe number 4 is von Schweppenberg. As to time frame, he was awarded the Knight's Cross on 9 July 1941, as commander of XXIV Armee-Korps. He remained with this corps until 21 July 1942 when he replaced Stumme as commander of XXXX Panzer Korps. I do not recognise the insignia on the car door, if it represents XXIV, then the photo was taken between 9 July 1941 and 21 July 1942, but it is impossible to be more precise I am afraid.
Hope this helps, Cheers,
Kerry.

[kerryboo]

Hello again,
Sorry archi, I forgot to say, the fist on the door is not, I believe, GvB, it is inverted, plus GvB was not formed until October 1943. von Schweppenberg was in command of 76th Armee-Korps from early 1943, so was unlikely to be involved with GvB.
Regards,
Kerry.

[Archi]

Hello Kerry !

Yes, you are right and this was my mistake !
I saw the "Ironfist" and without further thought, "identified" the car as belonging to GvB !
Under that assumption, there would have been only a small timeframe (if at all), where General Geyr v. Schweppenburg
(affiliated to Pz.Gruppe West) could have met elements of the GVB. That was why I asked for a date ... sorry ...

Regarding the tactical symbol :
It could be related to 78. Inf./Sturm-Division, but I am not sure ...

Best regards,

Archi

[s.pak]

I repeat () the fist on the door is the XXIV AK insigna.
I have one other photo of this Kommandeurwagen, again with General Geyr v. Schweppenburg, and with the fist and the "G" of the Panzergruppe 2.
The XXIX AK is part of the Panzergrouppe 2.


patrick

[kerryboo]

patrick,
To be accurate you did not say the fist was for XXIV A-K, hence, I believe, archi's confusion. But thank you for the clarification,
Kerry.

[Archi]

Hello patrick !

Just as Kerry, I thank you very much for the detailed additional explanation !
Now it has become all clear !

Best regards,

Archi

[s.pak]

patrick,
To be accurate you did not say the fist was for XXIV A-K, hence, I believe, archi's confusion. But thank you for the clarification,
Kerry.

Sorry for that.


Patrick

[s.pak]

Hi Archi & Kerry,
Just to confirm.






Patrick

[kerryboo]

Hey Patrick,
Thanks once again for the explanation. A quick question, was the insignia the same before the XXIV was renamed as a Panzer Korps? If not that could help to narrow down the time at which the photo was taken. I think it was 5 October 1941 when the renaming took place, and v.Schweppenberg left the command on 21 July 1942.
Thanks again,
Kerry.