Hitler's Signature

[TotenkopfSS]

Hello collectors

could I have please opinions about this hitler's signature?

I'm not expert but it looks ok to me

Thanks in advance, cheers Mike

[Br. James]

This does appear to be an original hand-written signature, as does that of this diplomatic promotion document's endorser, Joachim von Ribbentrop. My hesitation is due to the late date; I would assume that Hitler would have been far too busy by the spring of 1943 to be handling such matters personally as upgrading a diplomatic assignment to the German Embassy in Madrid and that the signature found on such documents would have been printed...

Just my opinion...

Br. James

[Yubari]

That is facsimile

[max history]

This does appear to be an original hand-written signature, as does that of this diplomatic promotion document's endorser, Joachim von Ribbentrop. My hesitation is due to the late date; I would assume that Hitler would have been far too busy by the spring of 1943 to be handling such matters personally as upgrading a diplomatic assignment to the German Embassy in Madrid and that the signature found on such documents would have been printed...

Just my opinion...

Br. James

It appears to be a Hitler facsimile, which of course it should be at this time on documents of this nature.

[jdogrulz1]

I think it is important to know the history and who the documents are about before one should make judgments on what is real and what is not.

Although I am not a handwriting expert I do like my WW2 history, and to me there are many reasons why it could be real, so here are just some things to think about when looking at this signature.

I think we can all rule out forgery as this is a true document and it is well documented in history.

Not a simple promotion, this was a very high promotion. Not many of these types of promotion documents with this type of promotions as it was not every day, or thousands of people being promoted to the foreign offices. They were hand selected, and Hitler was very involved in all of his intel operations and foreign offices, as everyone knows about his paranoia.

This was just not some small fish! He was the right hand man of Ribbentrop. This was the man who, on the orders of Ribbentrop, started and headed the Inf. III. It was the Intelligence (spy) service of the Reich Foreign Office, which used the Foreign Office for spying. The spy service was named Information Post III and later just abbreviated to Inf III. And just a few days after this promotion he was called back to Germany were he was named the Undersecretary of State and then 1 month later became the Secretary of State for Germany.

There were Stamps and printed versions, and if you look at the examples of them in "Leaders and Personalities of the Third Reich Volume One by Charles Hamilton shows all the facsimile/stamped signatures used by Hitler." you will not find one exactly like this one. I could not find any other signatures that match this one, maybe someone else could find one.

The flow is not even as you would see in a printed or fasicmile signature, imho but again I am not an expert in handwriting.

It seems to me when I do close ups in photoshop that I can see the inkflow out into the paper.

So when I look at all that info I tend to say that this could be a real signature, imho.

Would be nice to see what the others thought about this info and if it would bring new light on this.

[tompress]

Here is a handwritten signature on similiar document for comparison.

About your document I have two questions:

1. Could you make a scan? Beacuse I ma not sure, if the photo is unsharp, or the signature is a little blurrish?

2. Is there a blind stamp with Reichsadler on the left? (Should be present)

regards
Tomasz

[tompress]

and a facsimile siganture from 1941 (both documents are to one person, the first one is form 1938).

[Br. James]

To Max, Yubari and tompress: Would you please clarify what you mean by "facsimile?" Are you saying that the signature in question is printed, stamped or hand-written by someone other than Hitler who was authorized to do so?

Many thanks,

Br. James

[max history]

The document is genuine, with a facsimile (printed) Hitler signature and a handwritten von Ribbentrop signature. It's not as important a document as jdogrulz1 suggests, and experience shows that even important documents relating to higher officials than this guy, have facsimile Hitler signatures in the later war years.
My guess is that if you examine the signature under strong magnification, the ink deposit will be even throughout and will display tiny lighter areas. These are caused by tiny air bubbles trapped in the printing process.
I have seen numerous examples of this facsimile version, exactly the same.
Max.

[tompress]

For clarification, definition of facsimile signature: a signature produced by mechanical means but recognized as valid by law

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...le%20signature

Some facsimile signatures are so well made that it is sometimes difficult to distinguish what we are dealing with without holding a document in hand.

regards
Tomasz

[jdogrulz1]

It's not as important a document as jdogrulz1 suggests, Max.

Well Max, I would submit that the importance is in the eye of the beholder I for one, who loves the history behind the items, find that a document from a Top Spy Boss from WW2 is very important and at the very least very cool, but that is just me. I have some copies of Hencke's interrogations from the trials which is really cool reading.

Maybe you are right and they did not see it as important enough to bother him with it, but I was just trying to help and putting some history to it and suggesting that there is the possibility that it could be since I do not see any proof otherwise.

But if we could find one that is exactly like this one and that has been expertly determined to be printed, this would of course make it an open and shut case.

I was under the impression from discussions around Charles Hamilton book that all of Hitlers Printed signatures were accounted for and recorded, is this not the case?

As an ex-law enforcement person, I have had some dealings with signatures, I am not an expert mind you, but just enough to be dangerous...LOL When you look close with photoshop you can see how the ink is light and dark and the cross overs are very visible. Normally on the printed ones this is not there, but again I am no expert, just giving my opinion.

[Br. James]

"The document is genuine, with a facsimile (printed) Hitler signature and a handwritten von Ribbentrop signature."

Thanks very much for providing further detail as requested, Max. Your response is most helpful.

Realizing that the subject of genuine Hitler signatures/signed documents is a veritable minefield of possible significant loss of money, we all appreciate your sharing your years of expertise in these matters.

Many thanks again,

Br. James