I thank Carl for his fastidious research on the location of this facility and I accept all that he has presented.
I should point out to chris235 that at no point did I state that the facility was not built, but only that from the satellite images there does not appear to be any trace of structures at the location other than the original Gutshof. This can only give rise to supposition as we are not physically at the site to verify any opinion. My guess that it was not completed as a permanent structure is not entirely wrong as it would appear that only temporary buildings were erected, later to be easily removed by the Russians. That explains the lack of physical evidence as seen from the air.
I refute the suggestion by chris235 that I am an armchair researcher, citing my many visits to numerous archives and historical locations connected to the Third Reich (and in particular SS and many KL sites) in order to physically carry out research.
The source work quoted by chris235 "The Buchenwald Report" contains sections which have long been discredited as academic sources for the study of the KL system during the Third Reich. It was created by the Allies in April 1945 and contains many referrals which are now considered by scholars as Allied propaganda. One good example is that Josias Waldeck und Pyrmont was permanently drunk on his “many” visits to the camp.
At no time did I say that Amt C of the SS-WVHA had NOTHING to do with the KL system. I did say that Amt C was concerned with building or construction work for the SS and this obviously included a number of construction projects connected to the camps. Amt C did not solely exist to facilitate construction of KLs. The vast majority of its work was related to non-KL projects. A large number of its staff had Luftwaffe backgrounds, including its boss, Kammler, and his deputy, Kiefer. chris235 wished to give the impression that Amt C existed to build camps which is totally wrong. Amt C provided architectural and design input, followed by ongoing building advice. Nothing stated above refutes this. Amt D provided manpower to physically build the projects and then administer any completed facility which fell under its jurisdiction. Once the project was completed, Amt C's input came to an end. FACT.
The fact that chris235 cannot find another similar file is, to his mind, good reason to declare it ultra rare. In the great scheme of things, his ability to discover any such item must be considered limited. It stands to reason that he can only cover a very small area of a vast collecting world. I have seen a number of similar files in my years of collecting, both in archives and private collections. Obviously I cannot say another file relating to this particular project exists and therefore I must agree that it is unique for its specific content. However, to suggest that it is the only such file existing in private hands is just plain wrong. Chris235 makes a big thing out of my inability to produce any similar file. I do not currently own one, nor do I currently have access to one, and it is obvious to all collectors that not everyone wishes their collection to be aired on the internet. Added to this, I stated that I did own two similar files many years ago, but I am now unaware of their current location. (I cannot be certain, but I think I bought one through Ray Zyla in the USA.) Therefore, his request to show another is quite obviously extremely difficult to fulfil, but my inability to do so cannot be considered as final proof that none other exists. I am also a small cog in a big wheel!
He also makes a big thing out of the Gutshof being seized from a Jewish banker. This is not unusual. Large numbers of properties were seized from Jews.
If chris235 created this thread only to encourage information on the file, why is he selling it? More information can only increase the selling potential and therefore it raises the doubts over his motivation.
Finally, the file obviously deals with the design and construction of the SS mounted squadron facility (as suggested by me originally). It has nothing to do with its later use. Therefore, following Carl’s research, the facility gains some interest, but unless one is particularly interested in design and architecture, the file remains one about a building project. As previously stated, the file is authentic, and although the later use of the buildings increases the interest level slightly, it remains a basic file on the architecture and construction of a little known SS facility with several signatures of Dr. Hans Kammler. The value only increases slightly, and this to those KL collectors out there. It remains vastly overpriced at €8000 or £6250. Being pushed to do so, and given the latest input by Carl, my insurance valuation would be in the region of €5000.
I should point out to chris235 that at no point did I state that the facility was not built, but only that from the satellite images there does not appear to be any trace of structures at the location other than the original Gutshof. This can only give rise to supposition as we are not physically at the site to verify any opinion. My guess that it was not completed as a permanent structure is not entirely wrong as it would appear that only temporary buildings were erected, later to be easily removed by the Russians. That explains the lack of physical evidence as seen from the air.
I refute the suggestion by chris235 that I am an armchair researcher, citing my many visits to numerous archives and historical locations connected to the Third Reich (and in particular SS and many KL sites) in order to physically carry out research.
The source work quoted by chris235 "The Buchenwald Report" contains sections which have long been discredited as academic sources for the study of the KL system during the Third Reich. It was created by the Allies in April 1945 and contains many referrals which are now considered by scholars as Allied propaganda. One good example is that Josias Waldeck und Pyrmont was permanently drunk on his “many” visits to the camp.
At no time did I say that Amt C of the SS-WVHA had NOTHING to do with the KL system. I did say that Amt C was concerned with building or construction work for the SS and this obviously included a number of construction projects connected to the camps. Amt C did not solely exist to facilitate construction of KLs. The vast majority of its work was related to non-KL projects. A large number of its staff had Luftwaffe backgrounds, including its boss, Kammler, and his deputy, Kiefer. chris235 wished to give the impression that Amt C existed to build camps which is totally wrong. Amt C provided architectural and design input, followed by ongoing building advice. Nothing stated above refutes this. Amt D provided manpower to physically build the projects and then administer any completed facility which fell under its jurisdiction. Once the project was completed, Amt C's input came to an end. FACT.
The fact that chris235 cannot find another similar file is, to his mind, good reason to declare it ultra rare. In the great scheme of things, his ability to discover any such item must be considered limited. It stands to reason that he can only cover a very small area of a vast collecting world. I have seen a number of similar files in my years of collecting, both in archives and private collections. Obviously I cannot say another file relating to this particular project exists and therefore I must agree that it is unique for its specific content. However, to suggest that it is the only such file existing in private hands is just plain wrong. Chris235 makes a big thing out of my inability to produce any similar file. I do not currently own one, nor do I currently have access to one, and it is obvious to all collectors that not everyone wishes their collection to be aired on the internet. Added to this, I stated that I did own two similar files many years ago, but I am now unaware of their current location. (I cannot be certain, but I think I bought one through Ray Zyla in the USA.) Therefore, his request to show another is quite obviously extremely difficult to fulfil, but my inability to do so cannot be considered as final proof that none other exists. I am also a small cog in a big wheel!
He also makes a big thing out of the Gutshof being seized from a Jewish banker. This is not unusual. Large numbers of properties were seized from Jews.
If chris235 created this thread only to encourage information on the file, why is he selling it? More information can only increase the selling potential and therefore it raises the doubts over his motivation.
Finally, the file obviously deals with the design and construction of the SS mounted squadron facility (as suggested by me originally). It has nothing to do with its later use. Therefore, following Carl’s research, the facility gains some interest, but unless one is particularly interested in design and architecture, the file remains one about a building project. As previously stated, the file is authentic, and although the later use of the buildings increases the interest level slightly, it remains a basic file on the architecture and construction of a little known SS facility with several signatures of Dr. Hans Kammler. The value only increases slightly, and this to those KL collectors out there. It remains vastly overpriced at €8000 or £6250. Being pushed to do so, and given the latest input by Carl, my insurance valuation would be in the region of €5000.
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