SS 12 Year Long Service Document - Opinions Please!

[TobyR]

Hi Everybody,

Here is an award doc for the SS 12 Year. Incidentally, this accompanies the medal shown in the General Awards Section.

I can't say I've had one of these documents before. However, my initial evaluation leads me to think that it is a fake, since for one thing, the date of the award is 1943. As I understand it, the SS Long Service medals were withdrawn in 1941, and replaced with the Army Long Service awards.

The urkunde is accompanied by a document from the Deutsche Dienststelle, dated 1987, concerning the recipient Karl Findeisen. Obviously, this has little bearing on the authenticity of the Urkunde.

Thanks for looking.

All the best,
Toby.

[TobyR]

Close-up:

[TobyR]

A close-up of the embossed eagle and wreath:

[TobyR]

And finally, part of the document from the Deutsche Dienststelle.

[CurtD]

I don't know if the doc is real or not. But, if it is, I bet it is worth more than the medal!

Toby, any provenance on this?

[TobyR]

Hi Curt,

Alas no provenance.

Whilst I don't know for sure, I am highly sceptical that the document is authentic, esp. given the date.

All the best,
Toby.

[Rick Research]

.

[Simon O.]

The end of 1943 and yet the doc still refers to the SS-VT?

Should the Meissner sig be there at all?

The use of the K. instead of Karl?



Think this might be your chap.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="94%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Nachname:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Findeisen </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Vorname:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Karl </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Dienstgrad:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Unterscharführer </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Geburtsdatum:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">02.02.1921 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Geburtsort:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Reifland </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Todes-/Vermisstendatum:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">25.02.1944 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Todesort:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Mankowka,H.V.Pl. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD width="100%">



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[TobyR]

Rick, Simon,

Many thanks for replying: your info has been a big help.

@ Simon - I also wondered about Meissner's signature. I'm so used to seeing it on docs such as the Mother's Cross, that it struck me as odd that he'd appear on a award such as the 12 Year SS doc.

Something else that troubled me was the apparent alteration / correction to his dob on the Dienststelle document. It looks all the more dubious given Simon's info on the real Karl Findeisen.

Thanks again.

All the best,
Toby.

[James Clark]

Rick, Simon,

Many thanks for replying: your info has been a big help.

@ Simon - I also wondered about Meissner's signature. I'm so used to seeing it on docs such as the Mother's Cross, that it struck me as odd that he'd appear on a award such as the 12 Year SS doc.

Something else that troubled me was the apparent alteration / correction to his dob on the Dienststelle document. It looks all the more dubious given Simon's info on the real Karl Findeisen.

Thanks again.

All the best,
Toby.

Recommendations for these awards were submitted through Meissner. But none of the three docs pictured in Foreman's book has his signature. Also, all three have typed Siegrunen rather than "SS" in the lines giving the recipient's rank and unit.