AH wax seal

[lohengrin]

Hitler's wax seal,

Chris

Thanks Chris,

That is a great example! I believe this one was from Berchtesgaden, correct?

Mark

[max history]

Don't get too carried away! Hitler received many gifts, but never used the vast majority which went into storage. The wax seal here is just that.....an ornate presentation piece, almost certainly never used. Hitler is well known to have had simple tastes and wax seals were commonly used by aristocratic families and more flamboyant characters such as Göring.
I didn't know the name of the janitor at Prinzregentenplatz, only that of the housekeeper and her husband. Strange the building janitor would get his hands on these seals. All the Hitler personal stuff I ever saw from his Munich apartment had Anni Winter's hand in it somewhere along the line.
Out of interest, how do you know the wax seal you saw a long time ago was genuine? Just a thought.
Max.

[lohengrin]

Don't get too carried away! Hitler received many gifts, but never used the vast majority which went into storage. The wax seal here is just that.....an ornate presentation piece, almost certainly never used. Hitler is well known to have had simple tastes and wax seals were commonly used by aristocratic families and more flamboyant characters such as Göring.

I have no doubt that was a gift... It is just a nice example of a seal that was "liberated" by GIs from Berchtesgaden... May not have been ever used, as you say...
The other seals were clearly used!

I didn't know the name of the janitor at Prinzregentenplatz, only that of the housekeeper and her husband. Strange the building janitor would get his hands on these seals. All the Hitler personal stuff I ever saw from his Munich apartment had Anni Winter's hand in it somewhere along the line.

I did not know his name either. But from the above article (http://www.germaniainternational.com/gunofdestiny.html) you can read that:

..."At this very important moment in history the names of those who had knocked on the door are Sgt. Arthur Peters, Pvt. William Soltz, Pvt. George Sachs, and Pvt. First class Andrew Sivi.
Suddenly the door is cracked and opens a few inches and then, hesitatingly, Frau Annie Winter opens it full and admits the GI’s as she announces to them that she is in charge of this house.
Once inside, the GI’s also meet THE JANITOR, his wife, and two maids. The soldiers questioned them as to who might be the owner of this stately house. Then, like a thunder bolt from Wotan, himself, this small assemblage reveals to them that this is a very special residence, indeed; none other than the former Munich dwelling place of the German Chancellor and Leader, Adolf Hitler.".....

It seems like this janitor and his wife spent a lot of time in the dwelling. As it also appears from the TIME article and photo here: http://www.thirdreichruins.com/munich.htm

Again, I am not certain if the seals are original, but few facts do add up!

Out of interest, how do you know the wax seal you saw a long time ago was genuine? Just a thought.
Max.

I remember that as a much younger man I was visiting my grandparents in Germany and we went to a museum or a collection and it had wax sealed letters from (and I may be wrong) Hitler's time in Braunschweig (mostly official documents) and his personal letters from the same period... But perhaps I am totally wrong!!

[max history]

It seems like this janitor and his wife spent a lot of time in the dwelling. As it also appears from the TIME article and photo here: http://www.thirdreichruins.com/munich.htm

Again, I am not certain if the seals are original, but few facts do add up!

I remember that as a much younger man I was visiting my grandparents in Germany and we went to a museum or a collection and it had wax sealed letters from (and I may be wrong) Hitler's time in Braunschweig (mostly official documents) and his personal letters from the same period... But perhaps I am totally wrong!!

Mark,
I can't see that the janitor spent a lot of time in Hitler's apartment. I'm not surprised that he and his wife were with Anni Winter when the Americans arrived as it's natural to gather together for the feeling of security. However, the photo of the janitor and his wife is taken in their own apartment as is clear from the outside view through the window. Hitler's apartment was upstairs on the first floor and the kitchen was a bit bigger. He would certainly have had the job of carrying out repairs, but to be left alone in Hitler's office to loot any desk item would be stretching it.
The seals you remember were almost certainly from official documents and not on correspondence. I cannot remember seeing one item of Hitler correspondence bearing a wax seal, but that is not to say they didn't exist. I must admit though, I find the whole idea of Hitler and wax seals a little far fetched.
Max.

[lohengrin]

Mark,
I can't see that the janitor spent a lot of time in Hitler's apartment. I'm not surprised that he and his wife were with Anni Winter when the Americans arrived as it's natural to gather together for the feeling of security. However, the photo of the janitor and his wife is taken in their own apartment as is clear from the outside view through the window. Hitler's apartment was upstairs on the first floor and the kitchen was a bit bigger. He would certainly have had the job of carrying out repairs, but to be left alone in Hitler's office to loot any desk item would be stretching it.
The seals you remember were almost certainly from official documents and not on correspondence. I cannot remember seeing one item of Hitler correspondence bearing a wax seal, but that is not to say they didn't exist. I must admit though, I find the whole idea of Hitler and wax seals a little far fetched.
Max.

Thanks for your replies Max,

What you say makes perfect sense. From what I have read, it seems that Schissler was AH's handy-man. Someone who would go in and out from Hitler's apartment on many occasions (surely knew Hitler) and thus it is not impossible that he took few items from Hitler's office after the war (as a souvenir) or perhaps Hitler gifted these to him... One will never know. I had an additional chat with my friend in Munich and he confirms that these were obtained directly from Schissler via previous (and to both of us known) collector. Apparently they were made between 1915 and 1930 and certainly used. I am still a bit hesitant to acquire these, because I do not know anything about such articles, but the reputation of the previous owners and the story makes it certainly possible... Naturally, before committing to this trade, I will do additional due-dilligence and speak to few other experts in Germany and then make a decision!

Finally, I did a quick research into the use and ownership of wax seals in Germany, speaking to few of my friends and family. Apparently, it was fairly common especially among middle and upper class people until the middle of the last century. Obviously, not many people would use these to wax-seal every letter, but people would own them and use them on special occasions... I have learned that my grandfather for instance, had wax seals, stamps and embossing machines made for my father and uncle prior to them leaving for colleges... Yet I have never seen them sealing letters with wax! So, not impossible... Also, in Hitler's case, it is known that he received several of these as gifts (even if he never use them)...

Anyway, Thanks for the replies and advice!

Mark

[max history]

Mark,
I quite agree; it's possible. However, everything I have read about Hitler's personality indicates he would not be the type of person to use wax sealing on correspondence and never having seen an example over many years tends to confirm that. The bottom line is that if you are happy that they are real, then that's all that matters. If you are not entirely comfortable with them, then why not sell your friend the photos and leave it to him to raise the money by selling the seals himself?
Regards,
Max.

[lohengrin]

Mark,
I quite agree; it's possible. However, everything I have read about Hitler's personality indicates he would not be the type of person to use wax sealing on correspondence and never having seen an example over many years tends to confirm that. The bottom line is that if you are happy that they are real, then that's all that matters. If you are not entirely comfortable with them, then why not sell your friend the photos and leave it to him to raise the money by selling the seals himself?
Regards,
Max.

Thanks Max, I will continue with the due diligence and will only trade for it if reasonably certain. if the seal belonged to AH, than I would love to have it... I will keep you updated!

Pleasure as always!

Mark

[lohengrin]

Hi Max,

I have just visited my friend from Mittenwald and viewed the seals. The first thing that struck me is how tiny they are!! The larger one is about 8.3 cm tall and the smaller one is only about 6 cm tall...They look very interesting. The larger one has a bakelite handle and (according to an independent art expert whom we met) comes from mid 1920s to mid 1930s. he smaller one is perhaps 10 to 15 years older. Both look sporadically used, very clean and there is no wax. However, the larger one has red ink on the top - spillage stain I think...
We will have several independent appraisals to look at it and then I will make my decisions...

M.

[90th Light]

Sorry I have not replied sooner. Yes I think you are correct about this one being from "Berchtesgaden"

Chris

Thanks Chris,

That is a great example! I believe this one was from Berchtesgaden, correct?

Mark

[lohengrin]

Interesting!! An auction house in Germany is offering a set of stamps, WAX SEALS and other stationary from the personal office of AH in Berlin...

So, I guess Hitler did use wax seals after all!

Early photo...