Schnaufer signed material

[Jeremy]

In post #38 of the Hartmann thread (http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=514742) I posted a photo of a fake style Hartmann and what I (and others) feel was a dubious Schnaufer on the same photo. Schnaufer fakes are not uncommon, so I thought it would be interesting to explore his signature on a variety of items.

An excellent, valuable, and extensive archive of Schnaufer is available through Wim Govaerts who has published the very well-researched book "Nachtspook van Sint-Truiden" and is in the process of having it translated to English. Here is his website:
www.heinzschnaufer.be

This authentic Schnaufer material, primarily documents and a few signed photos (BUT NO CLIPPINGS), comes from the Schnaufer family (Wim visited them a number of times), Fritz Rumpelhardt (who Wim interviewed extensively), the Bundesarchiv (Wim obtained document copies), and Wim’s personal collection over the years. All of these sources are traceable and can be verified. This is very different to the fake stuff being produced by a single source in Germany – the fake factory.

Schnaufer’s signature changed over the years, so, to start with here are some of his signatures from Jan1940 to Aug 1941. Slight variations evident. Such authentic sigs are only available on documents. You can see the early sigs in the scan attached. The source of the first four shown is Heinz Schnaufer Luftwaffen Personalakte - LP 84989 in the Bundesarchiv. The Aug 1941 example is from Wim’s personal collection on a document signed when Schnaufer was in 3./Zestorerschule 2. .

[Jeremy]

Fake stuff

Now, the BS stuff.

Firstly, Wim has NEVER come across a blank clipping signed by Schnaufer with an early style sig (the first two sigs are from typical clippings with a magazine picture). Why? Because Schnaufer was just another young pilot at this stage. Schnaufer only scored his first victory in June 1942!! He did not receive his KC until 31 Dec 1943. Why would any HJ collector, or anyone else, send him a blank sheet with an aircraft picture to sign prior to 1942? No victories, no KC… ridiculous.

In addition, look at various features of the very likely fake sigs on the three clippings. The initial 'S' seems to be similar to the Apr 1941 style, but the ‘r’ is notably different.

In fact, the symmetrical nature of the triangle feature of the ‘r’ which is noticeable in all three BS clippings is odd, and it does not appear to be a consistent feature of his early sigs, yet every BS one show here has it, and is accompanied by the wrong initial 'S'. Anyway, it is interesting to compare the differences between these sigs and the authentic material in the previous post, and see what you think.

The bottom Schnaufer, which comes with a print (http://www.ehangar.com/modules.php?f...=Forums&p=2859), is different to the first two clippings but also markedly different to the authentic early sigs shown in the previous post. It has the same odd symmetrical triangular ‘r’ as the other BS stuff, but also, the ‘a’ and ‘u’ are nothing like in the authentic ones, and no Schnaufer sig had the bar or line prior to mid-1943, by which time the ‘r’ had also changed anyway. Basically, that sig is the worst of the three BS ones shown. I'd be interested to hear where that one came from, too.

Turning to the photo. This photo is from 5 August 1944 at St. Trond! There is a large version of it in Hinchcliffe’s book on Schnaufer on p.166 (Hinchcliffe says it is in spring, but this is wrong as Schnaufer did not get his oakleaves with swords until July 1944). In that photo, Schnaufer is wearing KC, Oakleaves and Swords. There is no way he would have signed that photo with a sig style he stopped using in mid-1942. Stupid fakers. That one is clearly fake. Compare it to the other sigs on the clippings and you can see various similarities.

Once again it is possible to identify clippings with BS/fake sigs just like for Hartmann, Rudel, Marseille and so on, and so on.

[Spencer]

Schnaufer

Jeremy

Thoughts on this one - I have had since early 2004


Thanks

Spencer

[Jeremy]

Hmm

Hi Spencer,

I think if you read my previous post and consider your clipping, you can make up your own mind. It's whether there is sufficient doubt in your mind based on your comparison of the various sigs presented. Let us know what you think...

What is the background to this clipping?

Here are two more of the same for you also to compare. This sig style is not on any authentic material (documents) I have seen from Schnaufer. And the line only appears with a different type of 'r' and the initial 'S' is not separate on those with a line from after Aug 1943 (I'll post later sigs when I get time). Note the pristine condition of the clipping attached after being through a war and '70 years'... hmmm. I also have yet another scan of the same type of clipping with an identical sig...

[VtwinVince]

Good work, Jeremy.I don't like any of the examples you've shown, aside from the period documents.

[Jeremy]

I don't think so

Here is a multi-signed clipping including Schnaufer. We have already seen that these types of pages are dodgy in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=509860

Authentic pages do not have all the signatures at the bottom of the page, first and last names are the norm (not just surnames), and ink colour varies. This stuff (and more) is for sale at Legends Aviation Gallery yet again:

http://www.legendsaviationgallery.co... II Signatures

pages 8 and 12

Now, you can see Schnaufer’s signature. This signature will be explored in a further post. What I want to talk about here is why this signature is almost certainly fake due to the context in which it occurs in the triple-signed clipping shown.

The clipping shows a ‘Lent’, ‘Becker’ and ‘Schnaufer’ signature. Clearly, they are all signed in the same ink (the first indicator of these being dodgy sigs). However, Becker died 26 February 1943. And Schnaufer had only 7 victories at that time, so why would he happen to sign with Lent and Becker who were already famous and experienced pilots with Lent at 50 night victories and KC plus oakleaves and Meurer had 46 victories and KC (oakleaves after he died)? In comparison, Schnaufer was a mere novice ace, so it is highly questionable anybody would ask him to sign from among all the other pilots. It’s just a way to make the clipping more attractive to the buyer.

Also, a key thing is that when Becker died in Feb 1943, it seems Schnaufer’s signature did not look like this. The line at the top of the sig did not appear until around Aug 1943 on documents. You might think Schnaufer could have signed the clipping at a later date, but look at the ink. He would have had to have signed much later with a pen using the same ink. Yeah, right.

Still wouldn’t waste my money on it – it’s a standard issue from the fake factory. Probably it will soon have an original Trudgian or Taylor pencil drawing added to it, so it can be sold as a designer clipping to an unsuspecting print collector at an airshow… that’s becoming standard practice.

You might recall this comment on ehangar by Frost and Korlin:

ALL the combat reports that we will be offering for sale in this exclusive Marseille Archive edition have been fully Authenticated and Laboratory tested by a Renown German Third Reich Signature expert. He has a Doctorate in Third Reich History and Authenticates items sent to him from all around the world. He also authenticates all Third Reich items offered for sale through Legends Aviation Gallery.

I'd love to meet their expert who authenticated this dodgy clipping. What a joke.

Certain sig retailers need to take more responsibility and think more carefully about the dodgy stuff they have for sale and who they unquestioningly source it from – same for some print artists still pocketing money along the way from trusting collectors. A little bit of research, common sense and knowledge goes a long way, as I am finding out.

[stgeorge64]

Jeremy

Another excellent thread concerning the field of RKT signatures!

Unfortunatly I have nothing to offer in the form of examples of Schnaufer's signature, as I did not have one in my collection even though there were always several on offer, many as illustrated by yourself here already.

A point I would like to raise is an item which was offered on the WAF e-stand some time ago, in the form of the 'Nachtjagdgeschwader 4' document signed by Schnaufer, only days after the surrender of Germany. The document (if I remember correctly) was his speech delivered to the Geschwader and was offered at a very reasonable price.

I do not have an image of the document, but wondered of you or any other WAF members are familiar with it, as if so it would be nice to see images posted on this thread, particularly in relation to the signature.

Regards Richard.

[Eric JB]

Jeremy and my good friend Wim (THE Schnaufer expert !)

Thank you for another great thread here on WAF.

Job well done gentlemen.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[Jeremy]

Last doc

Richard,

The last doc you mention is shown on pages 249-250 of Hinchcliffe's book. You can see the signature there. This was signed in blue pencil. The one in Hinchcliffe's book comes from the Schnaufer family collection.

Wim tells me that only a few others of this order were signed and these other signed ones were for those probably dealing with NJG4 admin at the time, and had the name of the person on the first page at the top.

The other ranks received the same message but this version was not signed by Schnaufer, but had gez. Schnaufer typed on them.

[stgeorge64]

Jeremy

Thank you for posting the images, and yes it is a copy of the same document to which I was referring.

I wish I had of copied the images from the e-stand for the purposes of comparison, I do remember that it was offered at an reasonable price and that it was snapped up very quickly.

A very interesting thread Jeremy, I hope that others will examples of Schnaufer signatures in their collections will post here accordingly.

Regards Richard.

[Ralljg52]

Dodgy Signatures

Hi guys

Found another dodgy dealer selling possible fake signatures Heroautographs.com in Germany. Where do they all come from. I don't no if I will ever be able to bring myself enough courage to buy any more German sigs.
What a bloody mess.

Ralljg52

[Leroy]

Just saw this thread. I was the one who got the Schnaufer "farewell" document (after my friends in The Netherlands verified it as real). I am in the process of totally re-organizing and moving around my collection, but will take some photos as quickly as I can to post here.

[Leroy]

Here's the document.

[Leroy]

Here's the signature.

[Leroy]

And here's a name written on the top of the 1st page.

My very great thanks to Wim (in Belgium), who is responsible for the greatest book on Schnaufer ever written (and to my friends in The Netherlands - and you know who you are!).