WWI-The Somme Offensive 1916

[leon]

The Battles of the Somme - 1st July - 28th November 1916

Perhaps somebody will know this beautiful and interesting picture... It's happening during the Somme offensive (in France...) between 1st July and 28th November 1916.

Does anybody know of which unit (division,brigade,Battalion) these men (British Machine Gun Crew in Phosgene Helmets) belong ?

And if somebody has some informations on the british gas masks and machine gun in 1916 ?

The British Order of Battle

III Corps :
1st Division, 8th Division, 12th Division, 19th Division, 23rd Division, 34th Division

VIII Corps :
4th Division, 29th Division, 31st Division, 48th Division

X Corps :
12th Division, 25th Division, 32nd Division, 36th Division, 49th Division

XIII Corps :
3rd Division, 9th Division, 18th Division, 30th Division, 35th Division

XV Corps :
7th Division, 17th Division, 21st Division, 33rd Division, 38th Division

Thank you

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Leon, I recognise the photo, it is a classic image from the Great War. I can tell you that the men will be members of the Machine Gun Corps, but I cannot tell you the unit that they would have been attached to, sorry. They wore a nice design cap badge of crossed Vickers MG's. The gunner in the pic wears a special padded jerkin which proctects your shoulders when carring the heavy gun.
One way that you might be able to find out is to write to the Imperial War Museum in London. I suspect this photo is from the archive there? If so, it will have a IWM negative reference number. You would need to quote this number.

I can help you with the Vickers Machine Gun, as I own one of these
What do you want to know?

Mine is a WW2 1940 dated example which is the same as the one pictured except it has a plain barrel jacket not the fluted one as in the photo. (Plain barrel jackets were introduced in 1918)
Cheers, Ade.

[leon]

Hi Adrian

Unfortunately, I don't have of negative reference number, because I have seen this picture on the Internet. But I have sent a E-mail to the Imperial War Museum (London) , I hope that they will answer me

In fact, I'm student and I have to identify a picture for my history's work...

Concerning the Vickers Machine Gun, I would like to know some informations like : when did the fabrication start and finish ? How many MG was used in the british units ? Magazine capacity ? Speed of gun ? the range ?

But to tell the truth, all the interesting's informations to understand better this picture.

[McCulloh]

perhaps you might do better if this was moved over to the International section? Of course the key to the picture are the tactical weaponry elements-trenches, gas and machine guns, which characterized the slaughter.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Leon, I will write a little thread and take some photos of my Vickers next week and post them up Keep a look out in the firearms forum.

In the meantime here are a few Vickers MG facts:

The Vickers design was adopted by the British Army in 1912. (The gun was developed from Hiram Maxim's basic MG design that was also used by the Germans and the Russians.)

Vickers production ceased in 1945.

There was only the one basic mark, the MkI, with just a few detail improvements. This just goes to show what a great design it was

The gun was belt fed. The belts were 250 rounds long. The gun could fire 500 rounds per minute. The barrel life was 12,000 rounds.

Range was, with the special dial indirect fire sight, an incredible 2.5 miles! This involved firing in an arc. Most battles took place at around 400 yards.

Hope this helps for now?
Cheers, Ade.

[leon]

Yes, thanks for your informations

[leon]

bug

[leon]

I have some news informations !!! To continue the thread

The photograph was taken at Ovillers in July 1916 (the battle of Ovillers). But the unit is unknown...
I suppose that maybe it's the 8th division (Hudson Division) because it's this division who took part at the battle of Ovillers.
Ovillers military cemetery : http://www.silentcities.co.uk/cemeteryo/ovillers.htm

The crew wear a "PH helmet" also called "P Helmet" (Phosgene Helmet). Chemical Formula : CCl2O (Carbonic dichloride)
It is highly toxic and it is an irritant to the respiratory tract, skin, and eyes. Phosgene poisoning may cause cardiovascular and respiratory failur

Later, the Gas Mask replaced the PH Helmet.







I attract your attention on this detail :

What does it mean ?

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Leon, the item in the photo is the MG gunners padded jerkin that I mentioned in my first reply to you The padded raised part was in leather and prevented the gun from slipping off your shoulder when carring the heavy gun. These are a rare item and sell for about £100 + now.
Cheers, Ade.