Jakob Grimminger

[Paul B]

Blood Flag

Hi Gents

This post is not to cast doubt on the flag that may be in a private collection in Europe -for all I know it could indeed be the genuine article- but rather to give some general context to the post-war Blood Flag story.

A spurious Blood Flag was one of the many items fraudulently sold by Konrad Kujau, the forger of the "Hitler Diaries". Robert Harris, in his book "Selling Hitler" records how Kujau sold his Blood Flag to gullible Stern reporter Gerd Heidemann:

"In reality, Heidemann's "Blood Flag" was simply an ordinary swastika banner -of which there are thousands in existence- to which Kujau had added his usual forged authentication. The swastika was in an old glass case upon which was glued a note: "As the condition of the flag has suffered greatly in the years of confiscation it is shown in the flag hall of the Brownhouse behind glass. According to the wishes of the Fuhrer." "

Later, in the same book, Harris records a meeting between Gerd Heidemann and Hans Baur at which a prominant collector -a retired police official from Luxembourg- was present. Heidemann and the ex-policeman realised they had common interests, and Heidemann offered to sell him his Blood Flag. Whether the sale went ahead or not is not stated.

Imagine if eBay had been around when Konrad Kujau was active....!

Cheers

Paul.

[oldflagswanted]

... about the Blood Flag, and others

...I didn´t find anything talking about the blutfahne in a private collection in Germany... tell me more ...It´s very important for me...

Gregorio:
I was wondering why info about the Blood Flag was so "important" to you?
Can provide more info about same if you send me a direct email to --->
OldFlagsWanted [at] att.net
<br>Also since you are in Spain, do you have or can you obtain some parade photos showing the Spanish Fascist Party standards - see the following example of the type of flag I am asking about.<br><center><img src=http://home.att.net/~b.k.weed/nzflagwave.gif></center><center>OldFlagsWanted</center><center><img src=http://home.att.net/~gullcottage/Fetspain.jpg></center>

[Gregorio Torres]

The info is important for me because I´m writing an article about this flag.

About the pictures of the Spanish Fascist Party standards you must remember I was looking for this images for you several months before, but I was not very lucky.

Regards.

[TMurray]

I can only say that the original flag rests in the private collection of a wealthy German collector.
Out of interest, who are the serious investigators?
Max.

Was this claim ever substantiated???

[Ludwig]

-

And what happened to Grimminger?
Was he executed or something?

[judas]

he died in poverty .i think it was about 19-63

[max history]

Was this claim ever substantiated???

The collector in question is one of the wealthiest collectors of Third Reich material in the world and he is a very private man. It is in a private collection which contains numerous authentic items of major historical importance for this era. The flag is the original and not the Kujau version.

he died in poverty .i think it was about 19-63

Does this information come from Charles Hamilton? If so, it should be treated with some caution. Hamilton had quite a few of Third Reich people "dying in poverty", but he never gave any sources.
Max.

[Mike H]

Military Advisor

Gentlemen,

Everyone should subscribe to MILITARY ADVISOR published by Roger Bender. Dirt cheap and full of interesting articles.

On this subject, the latest issue Vol. 17, No. 2 has an outstanding article titled, "A Man and His Flag - SS Standartenfuhrer Jakob Grimminger".

Issues are available for $5.00 at this link:

http://www.bender-publishing.com/

Click on the "Advisor" button.

Mike

[BrianK]

The big secret of who owns the flag can't be revealed, as it might upset the political stability of the whole world.

[ramon]

The big secret of who owns the flag can't be revealed, as it might upset the political stability of the whole world.

The stability of world is hardly at stake, but I'd wager the stability of the person who owns it would be in doubt as the Blut Fahne is the 'Holy Grail' of the Movement. I suspect German Government entities could initiate inquiries into the circumstances concerning the ownership and use of this exceptionally emotive artifact.

Ramon

[Jon Fish]

Here you have some tracks finding in internet in a few seconds. And all my books about the SS and NSDAP says something similar. I didn´t find anything talking about the blutfahne in a private collection in Germany, but, please, if you can tell me more specific information about this I´d be very happy to know some more. It´s very important for me. Thank you.

""The Blutfahne was last seen in public at the funeral of Adolf Wagner, Gauleiter of München-Oberbayern, Apr 1944. It was kept at the headquarters of the NSDAP, the Braunes Haus (Brown House) in Munich, and is believed to have been destroyed during the allied bombings of Munich. http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=5067

""The Blutfahne was was last seen in public at the funeral of Gauleiter Adolf Wagner in April 1944, after which it disappeared. It is possible that it may have been destroyed, or it may yet survive, either in secret storage somewhere or simply unrecognized as such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blutfahne

""The flag was kept in the Munich NSDAP HQ called the Brown House, which had a flag museum in the downstairs hallway, that is until the U.S. 8th Air Force destroyed the building as well as most of Munich during the war. http://atlasgeo.span.ch

Don't believe everything the press tell you !
I believe the flag wold not have been allowed to perish and would have been taken away for safety late 44. It is no sprise its in an advanced collection.I would love to see it one day but understand its owners reluctance to make public its ownership !

[VtwinVince]

Reminds me a little of the amber room story, and the Russians who still believe the German government is hiding it, stashed away somewhere. Of course all evidence points to the Russians having destroyed it themselves when they burned down the Koenigsberg castle in April, 1945

[N.C. Wyeth]

Don't believe everything the press tell you !
I believe the flag wold not have been allowed to perish and would have been taken away for safety late 44. It is no sprise its in an advanced collection.I would love to see it one day but understand its owners reluctance to make public its ownership !

Yes, I agree - do not believe everything you hear and read in these times - mayebe even especially from the Press? And in the same sense, maybe you should not believe everything you hear from all of those that want to believe the dream is still true . . . and how about those that seek out the blutfahne and blutordern? Do you think they would like you to believe otherwise?

[Doug Kenwright]

Jakob Grimminger did not die in abject poverty, but close enough to it.

He received a small pension for his involvement in civic politics after the war, but like most living on a fixed income, I am certain that he and his wife's day to day existence was by no means extravagant.

I believe he died in 1969.

I am sure that even at that late stage in his life, there were collectors of TR personality items sniffing around that certainly were not going to help him benefit from their largess.

His wife certainly did not benefit from the sale of his items in recent years. She was paid pennies on the dollar for a whole grouping of items that enriched many dealers. His GPB was recently sold for $25k.