Question regarding use of artillery pieces by grenadier units

[Jean-Loup]

Hi guys
I have been reading accounts of battles where it is described that at the very front lines, amongst infantry troops, there were various artillery pieces being used (in bunkers, in trench systems, anti tank guns, etc). Would these artillery pieces usualy have been manged by men belonging to the infantry unit, or were they maned by men detached from an artillery unit.
Did infantry units sometimes have a certain number of canons belonging to them?

JL

[ChrisA]

Hello

A Infantry, Grenadier etc.. company did not have any organic heavy weapons like AT-guns or artillery. Some types had a organic mortar or s.M.G. group.
Support weapons like AT-guns etc.. were subordinated from the various support elements of the regiment or division. This means that for example the divisional or regimental AT-element (divisional Pz.Jg.Abt. or regimental Pz.Jg.Zug) had to detach elements and to support the defending infantry at the locations ordered (terrain, situation etc..). Of course also with specialist personnel.

Static defenses were usually maned by so called Festungstruppen which were specially equipped for defense in static, fortified lines.

/Christoph

[Jean-Loup]

Thanks for your reply.
The reason I am asking this is concerning the 14 MIA german soldier I found in 2006 at Villeneuve. I know for sure that a few of those men were maning a 75mm French canon supporting the infantry troops.
6 readable dog tags were found with the bodies, but all were for infantry troops, from the same two infantry companies. 2 other bodies were identified when they checked out the archives for those 2 companies.

But the rest of the men are still unidentified. Should I tell the WASt that they should also check out their archives for the local artillery or panzer jager units?

JL

[ChrisA]

Hello,

As usually in war there is nothing for sure. Of course there was a possibility that infantry companies maned prepared gun position. Nothing impossible but it wasn´t the rule.
Theoretically many ..also Heerestruppen could have been present.

/Christoph

[Jean-Loup]

Lets say that I suspect that it may have been infantry troops maning the canon, because otherwise it seems like strange luck that not a single dog tag to an artillery unit was found... but strange luck also exists in war...

JL

[Simon O.]

it was quite normal for infantry units on static defence duties to have extra heavy weapons allocated at battalion or company level. This was often but not only festungs units and were in addition to their authorised kstn strength.

In Regular infantry units you can also sometimes see things like l.IG18 guns allocated at battalion level.

If you know the units then look for the original tables of organization and equipment in the archives, especially at korps or armee level as these archives are often more complete

[ChrisA]

Hello Simon,

As I said... but these for example l.I.G.18 were not maned by the personnel of the infantry company!

/Christoph

[Simon O.]

Chris

I said they could sometimes be found allocated at infantry battalion level, in a battalion heavy company for example. Not only in an IG or Pz.Jg.Kp. i can show you examples if you wish.
From my experience the authorised kstn was often only a framework with units in the field having more, less or completely different equipment given to them depending on what they could get there hands on. Nebelwerfers allocated to the stabs kp of a GJ Rgt for example.
The only way to know is to look at the relevant gliederungen for the units concerned at that time.

[Jean-Loup]

Thanks guys. The best is to check every possibility.
Next time I am in contact with the WASt I will ask them if they checked out the lists for the local artillery and Panzerjäger units as well. But considering how slow they are to react....
But anyway, its worth a try.

JL

[Simon O.]

You might find NARA microfilm rolls T312-978 and 979 very useful, they're from the records of AOK 19 for the second half of 1943 and include maps and TO&E charts for the army's units defending the Southern French coast.