GWL observer

[Peppe864]

Hi guys!

I have been searching the forums for hits on GWL observes and there are plenty, but I cannot find anyone with this exact hardwear, does it make it a bad one, or are there variants?

[Peppe864]

2

[hellracer1]

I do not like this badge, from my point of view it is a fake, the details are so blurred, the rivets are not correct., the Hardware and so on. Hope I am not right. As comparision my observer from GWL.
Best regards
Winfried

[Peppe864]

So lets clear out a couple of things before giving thumbs down on the basis that the badge you posted are not the same as mine, yes I know that I searched the forum for GWL-observers and found only the version of the badge that you posted. But does that automatically make the badge I have a fake? Yes if there are no known variants of the GWL-observer then the badge I posted most likely is a fake.

So to refrase myself, are there any variants of GWL-observers and is the one I posted a possible variant or a dud?

The pics tend to lie a bit, since they are taken in bad light with a mobile phone, sry no better equipment at the hand at this moment. The details are actually quite sharp when looking it in hand, feathers and so on.

So maybe it is like you say, a complete dud. And does variants excist?

[Sebastien T]

Very good fake of a GWL obs.... hardware, rivets and details are wrong.

Seb

[Larry Lipps]

In response to your question, I have personally never seen a variant that I believed to be real.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Here is my take on this badge. While I agree that the rivets aren't typical GWL, they are infact identical to postwar S&L badges.

The eagle, wreath, hinge and catch all look fine to me, so I feel these parts are original, wartime produced GWL parts. However, the rivets are clearly S&L and the pin is a crude replacement.

So my gut feeling is that S&L put this together postwar from leftover GWL parts for the souvenier trade. We know that the postwar S&L souvenier boards are filled with all sorts of leftovers from other makers (Assmann, FLL, GWL, Meybauer, etc.), so I don't think it is surprising to see this.

Not an original wartime-produced variant, but a postwar creation by S&L with leftover parts.

Tom

[Sebastien T]

Very very interesting point Tom. Question then, Who you think who stamped the eagle's back. The Gwl mm missing the complete L which is weird and look a little different...Can S&L also tried to reproduced it as well ir miss strucked by GWL firm initially?

Seb

[Larry Lipps]

Tom, one other point here is that GWL generally had a durable finish applied to the wreaths of their badges. This badge is in good enough condition that there should be plenty of the original finish remaining. May be just the photos, but I don't see any. That would lead me to your conclusion that it was leftover stock probably finished post war.

Hi guys,

Here is my take on this badge. While I agree that the rivets aren't typical GWL, they are infact identical to postwar S&L badges.

The eagle, wreath, hinge and catch all look fine to me, so I feel these parts are original, wartime produced GWL parts. However, the rivets are clearly S&L and the pin is a crude replacement.

So my gut feeling is that S&L put this together postwar from leftover GWL parts for the souvenier trade. We know that the postwar S&L souvenier boards are filled with all sorts of leftovers from other makers (Assmann, FLL, GWL, Meybauer, etc.), so I don't think it is surprising to see this.

Not an original wartime-produced variant, but a postwar creation by S&L with leftover parts.

Tom

[Giel VW]

The wreath and eagle are certainly good GWL parts, catch and hinge are so too.

It's very interesting proof that there was a lot of GWL stock available after the war. It explains again why so many GWL badges are found in mint condition, and why "RC" could be one of the postwar retailer of souvenirs, just like one who made this ensemble.

Saying that S&L put this together because of some crudely flattened tombac rivets... hmm I don't know but it might be taken into account.

[Thomas Durante]

Very very interesting point Tom. Question then, Who you think who stamped the eagle's back. The Gwl mm missing the complete L which is weird and look a little different...Can S&L also tried to reproduced it as well ir miss strucked by GWL firm initially?

Seb

Hi guys,

I don't think S&L would have made this stamp. It looks correct for GWL, just slightly mis-struck at a poor angle which left the right side weaker than the left side.

Tom, one other point here is that GWL generally had a durable finish applied to the wreaths of their badges. This badge is in good enough condition that there should be plenty of the original finish remaining. May be just the photos, but I don't see any. That would lead me to your conclusion that it was leftover stock probably finished post war.

Larry, I suspect the wreath and eagle don't have any finish on them at all! They are both just bare nickel silver. You can see that there is no finish on the hinge and catch solder, and the tombak rivets are also unfinished. Also, there is absolutely no sign of wear to the highpoints of either the eagle or wreath, so all that together tells me the eagle and wreath parts probably don't have any finish on them at all.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Saying that S&L put this together because of some crudely flattened tombac rivets... hmm I don't know but it might be taken into account.

Its the way the rivets are cut, that is identical to S&L postwar rivets. The tool marks are identical. Being crudely flattened is also typical of postwar S&L, so to me that is good evidence of who actually put this thing together IMO.

Tom

[Giel VW]

Its the way the rivets are cut, that is identical to S&L postwar rivets. The tool marks are identical. Being crudely flattened is also typical of postwar S&L, so to me that is good evidence of who actually put this thing together IMO.

Tom

And... both were Lüdenscheid colleagues.

[Jelle M.]

Guys take a look at the maker mark,
as you can see the 'l' in GWL is placed mirrorwise.
Have you ever seen that on an original GWL badge?
I'm not sure what we are looking at but i would not want it..

[Thomas Durante]

And... both were Lüdenscheid colleagues.

Yes, and we know GWL items were found on S&L souvenier boards, so they definitely picked up items from them after the war (in addition to other makers).

Jelle, the maker mark mistake you mention is just an optical illusion. The Maker mark is correct, just lightly struck.

Tom