J2 Aluminum PO

[Sebastien T]

Thanks guys really appreciated your comments. Now on the chase for a j1 alu pilot observer

Seb

[mwl]

Mind blowing and top notch, for sure. Congrats Seb

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Seb,

So you know of a few other Junckers with this same eagle? Would love to see some pics of these if you don't mind posting. I don't have these on file and seems like a major discovery here finding a new Juncker variant, for me at least. Looking in the WAF Database, I see the Aluminum J2 PO seems to match your eagle as far as I can tell, hard to be sure because of the glare. But I do see one difference, but could be the angle of the shots I suppose.

Likewise, has this eagle ever been found on a regular Pilot badge (not P/O)?

So what are we looking at here? Juncker aluminum P/Os have this type of eagle, but their regular Pilot badges do not? Something I have never noticed until now.

Thanks

Tom

[Nick Carraway]

Could very well be the angle. An outrageously gorgeous badge. I would not be surprised if it is the same die. High glare/reflection, lack of details in photo, angle could all contribute. It is freakishly perfect

[Sebastien T]

Hi Tom,

I saw what you pointed out and it dosen't seem to be on the DB's one. There is minor details differ but overall pretty much the same eagle. The one in the DB and mine are the 2 I have in file. When I saw the one I insert on the DB I did not take attention to it as I tought it was a regular J2 as the pictures are not the best. When I received the pictures of mine I soon realized the mix between the J1 and J2 eagle and I was septic a little bit as sometimes you know how pictures can trick people. But having it in hands it is obviously a different die and different eagle. From what I can say I have never see another die like this other than on the 2 known J2 aluminum Pilot observer. Looking at the close up I made with some comparaison with my J2 tombak, you can see the details from the both eagles and you see the tendency to be similar and that the alu one is definately an earliest variant.

I think its a major discovery as well but what to do with it? My personal opinion is either looking at the unfinished details on the PO they stop produced it and rework the die or, Both are mint badge and could be prototype or, it is simply the second pattern and now we have 4 juncker eagles and we go from J1 up to J5?

Seb

[Sebastien T]

The right wings are completely different specially the second feathers row but the left wings are very close with some minor differences on the wing root feathers as well on the last one.

Here's the left wings

Seb

[Sebastien T]

The right wings

Seb

[Alex Bolotnikov]

Outstanding!

[Nick Carraway]

Seb,

Thanks for the update images. Much clearer

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Seb,

Great comparisons, thanks for putting those together. Clearly two dies at work here.

Very interesting that we only see this "prototype" eagle on Juncker P/Os. They must have been used very, very briefly. Its a major discovery here; its not every day we find a new variant, especially with such a well known maker like Juncker.

I don't think we should change the J1, J2, etc. nomenclature because it is already well established and well used and frankly, its still correct because technically Juncker only used this type of rare eagle on their P/Os (never on a Pilot Badge that we know of). So I suggest we keep the J1, J2, etc. terminology and think up a new name for this rare P/O eagle. Like maybe J1.5 or J1/2, etc.

Nice work Seb. Great discoveries and research like this is really what separates WAF from any other forum out there

Tom

[kevin john]

Hi Seb

what fantastic badges you have and what a wealth of information you and Tom have between you we are so lucky that this forum has you two to help us members and give us your expert advice before we make a purchase, thanks kevin.

[IVAN]

REALLY A DESIDERABLE BADGE !!!

[Nick Carraway]

J/Seb

[Tim O.]

Fascinating work Seb and Tom. I would have thought the cost of a die was substantial so could the J2 have been required because the die was not suitable for Copper-Nickel alloy versus Aluminium when the badge material changed?

[Sebastien T]

Thanks Guys for the comments, we really appreciated it.

Tim, I don't know as the aluminum and tombak are from the same regular J2 die so both are suitable. I suspect it didn't make the cut on the look or the design. I would agree making a die is a long and expensive task. Just look at Deumer, it took a long time to design the DD pilot when they did switch from the D1 as they use the J2 parts for quite a while...

Tom, I do agreed for not changing the nomenclature, I was just writing some ideas. I like the J1.5 but if one day we find an aluminum or tombak pilot with this look it will change a lot of things.

Thanks guys

Seb