As to photos of the badge in wear, well it took years to find the 20 July Badge, the British Free Corp. In fact it was thought that none existed. A clear pic of the cuff band is still not avalable. This award was rendered in the East, thus the probability of finding one is greatly reduced for very obvious reasons. Why tombak not zink, well again sound reason if you follow the information that a small number were produced in Dresden. The tombak metal is easier to use in a low production run. The figure given was in the region of 100. The suposed producer was a small jewler, thus tombak would be a prefered metal. Also as we see from the reports on the bombing of Dresden, this city was thought to be of no military importance. Hence the piont that it is now considered to be a war crime. Stocks of material would have been more avalable. The bombing its self destroyed the center of the City, the outer areas were more or less uncathed.So the view that production was impossible is VERY flawed. Again to use figures, after the fire storm in Hamburg were the situation was horrific, war production actually increased by about a third after the raids compared to before.
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Pehaps it might be prudent to remember that Dr.K was married to a woman who owned a medal producing firm, a fact he seemed by all accounts to prefer to keep secret (unsuccessfully) for some bizarre reason.. go figure
I would'nt buy one that's for sure.
ColinComment
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Wasn't the partisan awarded mainly in the east ? albeit in larger numbers .
Yes but still no photo,s of the badge have surfaced .
As to the small jeweller who made the small run , do we have their name , were they listed on the LDO and were they actually located in the centre of Dresen ?
Also does anyone actually know of a veteran who got this award not just on paper ?
Grant
Too many what if,s for me , a bit like the luftwaffe sea battle badge
Anyone know of other Dealers still trying to flog these apart of Jamie C ?Last edited by Grant Broadhurst; 02-16-2005, 06:42 AM.Comment
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The firm was supposed to be Glaiser. They were not in the centre. The Luft Sea Batle badge has turned up with doc from veteran. It is pictured in Angolias book on the NSKK. As to buying one, that is down to the individual collector. Again the question is beged were would you find one, of the supposed originals, for sale?Comment
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Would love to see the pic of the luftwaffe sea battle badge and docComment
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It can be seen on page 345 NSKK AND NSFK. If you e-mail me at chrisailsby@btinternet.com I will scan it and send it to you.Comment
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rare document
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Chris, with all due respect, you have given us a number of doozies in the past.Originally posted by WARLORD
1) the fake doc for the Erdkampf with 25
2) the "relative bringback" armstripe for shooting down an aircraft
3) helped spread the "panzer badge 200" B.S.
4) Balkan shields
5) a few more that slip my mind.
I commend you fr your open mind, and if your open mind means you spend money for "strange" pieces for your own collection, then good luck to you.
but as far as dealers go, I am much more comfortable with a dealer who makes his errors on the conservative side and refuses a item or two that may actually be real, than a "liberal" dealer that accepts items with a thread of dubious evidence, whether he actually believes it or not.
as someone from the outside looking in, you seem to give the thumbs up to a number of things that leave other folks scratching their heads.Comment
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Dear Colin,
I had to remove that doc picture. No personal insults please, keep the discussion on a civil level.Cheers, Frank
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Chris, with all due respect, you have given us a number of doozies in the past.
1) the fake doc for the Erdkampf with 25
2) the "relative bringback" armstripe for shooting down an aircraft
3) helped spread the "panzer badge 200" B.S.
4) Balkan shields
5) a few more that slip my mind.
OK lets go theough these points, first the doc for the 25 badge. I have already stated openly this was a mistake. I have he pic from Christian von Teckernic were he stated that his was the doc to the badge. What more can I say?
As to the bring back of the insignia of the low flying badge. This was my Uncle the emblem unfortunatly has been mis lay over the years. His sevice record will prove his place.
the 200 panzer badge was a record of that which Anolia suplied to me. If this is a question then please go back to soarce.
The Balkan shield is a direct quote from the veteran. You must have seen the insignia he gave me. I can say no more than that which he spook.
These are as it happend. You must prove it did not.Comment
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No offense meant, but who is Dr. K? I have never heard of him.
Best regards
Paul ReckComment
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Point of parlimentary procedure...
Gläser's shop was destroyed during the bombing... Richter's book on Imperial Saxon O/D/M shows before and after photos.... having said that, I have always felt they were 2 different buildings shown, based on certain architectural features. Irrespective of these fotos, Gläser's physical location was well within the bombing perimeter and was probably devastated... I have an Uncle whose brother was in a POW camp outside Dresden. Allied POW's were used to clear the streets, etc. after the raids. A substantial number where killed by "friendly fire" from unexploded ordnance and subsequent raids, including my Uncle's brother. After the war, his diary was given to the family and the descriptions of what the center of Dresden looked like were horrific.
Photos do exist of the APB in wear... Nieman's book has one in it! I am unaware of any photo of a Balloon Badge, Luft. Tank Badge, or Luftwaffe Sea Battle Badge in wear. Of course it's been only a few days since a foto has finally surfaced of a Luft. Retired Pilot Badge.....
Dr. Klietmann's wife (and family still does) own Göde... a reincarnation of Gödet that her family purchased in the 1950's (I think??)... the company is one of the largest reproducers of Imperial Badges, Orders, etc. and very low quality ones at that (IMO). I have often wondered what they received when they bought the company.... dies, records, etc.... This is the (reputed) source for the restruck Godet OL's, OL&S, etc. currently circulating.
Dr. Klietmann was a pioneer in recording details and photographs of the awards of the 3. Reich immediately after the war. His early work is almost straight from (still) existing records, documents and first-hand discussions with the soldiers, sailors, airforce and manufacturers when they were still here. Controversial, yes. Errors that we now know about? Yes. But you cannot totally dismiss his work unless you wish to credit him with committing the biggest hoax on military collectors to come.... which means in 1948-on... he somehow knew that guys & gals like us would be squabbling over these pieces 60 years later! I think Klietmann, Niemann, Angolia, Stump....... whoever... one must approach all references with an open eye!
Last edited by stogieman; 02-16-2005, 01:19 PM.Comment
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Just a "cheeky" side note: it may be Motörhead, but it is Godet (not Gödet) and Glaser (not Gläser).
Cheers, Frank
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Meine Entschuldigungen!
Ich habe herauf mein gemischt a und ä, und mein o und ö !
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