Luftwaffe Tank Badge

[Mark S.]

I agree Mark. If you are niave enough to count every Luft tank badge you see, regardless of type, there are probably many more than five available at any one time. Something else is that the number 5 is just a number someone threw out there, since if there isnt bonfide proof these were made, there certainly isnt any proof only 5 were made.

Of course, when people see an oppertunity to bash a dealer, proof, facts and knowledge take a back seat. They grab the coattails of a knowledgable member and go along for the ride.

[stogieman]

Unfortunately....

You do not have 4 identical badges here people.... the "Osang" badge has been on the market for at least a year, if not longer. Here's the 4 badges being discussed. This photo will take some time to load on your screen. Please be patient.

[Brian S]

Let's turn this around a little bit. Let's ASSUME the badge is genuine, the first example of Detlev's.

Now what is it? A cheaply made one piece badge easily stamped out of zinc at a rate of probably several hundred per hour.

Rare?

I doubt it.

1) Not Rare: In zinc proves to me it was in production and not in any prototype issue for examination. And I presume several hundreds were produced.

2) Rare: IF the factory producing these was 'hit' before they shipped out in quantity then they will be rare. But I doubt this as factories like this were really just small-large shops in the outskirts of towns. We know Juncker was 'hit'. But, Godet survived.

If this badge is the real deal why wouldn't we expect to see SEVERAL of these exact same badges begin to pop up. Expecially as the 'early bird' gets the highest price worm. These badges lying in the wings for a higher price may be disappointed if my theory proves out. I personally expect these to be very available over the next two years.

[stogieman]

Additional comparison

Here's a comparison of the 3 reverses available. This will take awhile to load.

[Dave Irving]

The Niemann and Atlantic Crossroads Inc badges appear to be identical. Viewed in silhouette from the back it would appear that the minor differences are due to file work in the finishing stages. This brings me back to my original question, which everyone is studiously ignoring! Why hasn't someone snapped up the Atlantic Crossroads Inc badge?

Dave Irving

[Brian S]

Dave you can challenge us all you want but your furtive arguments that if one of us doesn't pony up 3 grand for a cross exposes any of these are frauds is not substantative. I don't personally care enough about this badge to buy one for 1 grand much less 3 or 5. My choice and collecting desires. Because I and 500 other collectors also chose to forgo this purchase doesn't make this any more or less real. Sorry but you're really not making a sound argument. The moment it IS purchased also makes no argument for the item in its favor. One day overwhelming proof may surface or not until then it's just a judgement call. But baiting any of us into a purchase to prove your point, is pointless.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Dave you can challenge us all you want but your furtive arguments that if one of us doesn't pony up 3 grand for a cross exposes any of these are frauds is not substantative. I don't personally care enough about this badge to buy one for 1 grand much less 3 or 5. My choice and collecting desires. Because I and 500 other collectors also chose to forgo this purchase doesn't make this any more or less real. Sorry but you're really not making a sound argument. The moment it IS purchased also makes no argument for the item in its favor. One day overwhelming proof may surface or not until then it's just a judgement call. But baiting any of us into a purchase to prove your point, is pointless.

For once, I agree with Brian.

[stogieman]

Using your argument.....

... that no-one has bought this badge.... does this mean that the JFS GAB-100 he has for sale for $6500 is fake as well?
I reiterate, IMO, there's evidence the badge was awarded and presented in the basic format... Is it proof positive? No, but by a preponderence of the evidence, we can assume this....
Then it comes down to a "gut call". Do you believe the item presented conforms with other, similar, period examples? IMO, yes. the badge is consistent with period examples, late-war, vis-a-vis construction materials, style & technique that I have handled.
To each his own. However, I don't feel it appropriate to impune a fellow collector, or dealer, who doesn't agree with you.....

[stogieman]

Similar construction........

..... Luftwaffe pilot badge, unknown maker, accepted original

[stogieman]

Another......

Luftwaffe GAB, unknown maker, accepted original

[Chris]

What evidence that the badge was awarded??? There is none. There is evidence that field made documents for the award were typed up and handed out. That is not evidence that a badge accompanied the piece of paper. The only "evidence" are bits of metal, which magically began appearing 40 years after the end of the war. Why didn't any collector ever see one of these before the mid-1980's?

German industry was in a state of total collapse, struggling to even get bullets to the front, and you're assuming that war materiel was diverted in the last days to make a new BADGE and deliver it to the front? My mind boggles. It's like we were seriously discussing UFOs or something.

Guys, fakers have made entire suits of medieval knight's armor to look 500 years old that fool advanced collectors and museum curators. Do you really think it's so hard to make a little piece of metal that looks 60 years old? If so, I've got some prime real estate to sell you, just east of Miami Beach. It's a bargain because it belonged to my Aunt Tessie, who insisted I sell it on the Forum to the lowest bidder.

[Brian S]

Chris I don't know how old you are or how much experience you have but let me ask you a question. How much do you think this ugly little piece of zinc was worth in 1968? When RK's were going for a song and DK's for less than a song and daggers for just a few dollars. Why on earth in 1968 would someone go to the effort to create this badge for probably less than the cost to produce it when so many original enameled and high end badges were to be scooped up for a few dollars? Why?

Your 40 years later is inaccurate by the way. Let's move way back to 23 years later for my reference book and someone may have older reference.

[Marc Garlasco]

The catch on the GAB (2 posts up) looks A WHOLE LOT like the one on that tank badge...
Marc

[stogieman]

Exactly........

... exactly one of my points Marc.... this late-war, zinc, crappy-made, no maker mark Luftwaffe GAB is an accepted, original, period-made piece.... looks a whole lot like the tank badge with respects to material and style, doesn't it? And just for fun, here's the crappy little cardboard box it was awarded in during the height of "Germany's Total Collapse".....

The catch on the GAB (2 posts up) looks A WHOLE LOT like the one on that tank badge...
Marc

[stogieman]

And a final point.........

A very close/hard look at the wreath and eagle of the Luft GAB will show it's a pretty darn good match to the Luftwaffe Tank Badge sold by Detlev Niemann.