cased Flak badge for opinion

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Norm,

Its a very good question but I think it is still confusing because these early Nickel Silver "ball hinge" flaks can be found with BOTH flatwire catches and round wire catches.

Furthermore, the later Zinc badges are also found with BOTH flatwire and round wire catches, so its confusing. Most of the zincers match the dies from the earlier NS badges, so its a good bet they were made by 1 and the same maker. However, there are some zinc badges that are 99.9% identical in obverse design and reverse setup, but a few small flaws are missing and likely means that another obverse die was involved. This could be evidence of 2 different makers using 2 slighty different dies. The almost identical reverse hardware setups make the "2 maker" scenario less likely in my opinion but we still cannot be sure either way.

Tom

[Marc Garlasco]

Until we find conclusive evidence all we can honestly say is these unmarked Luft Flaks were made by a Gablonz manufacturer.

[90th Light]

Another thing to take into account in this discussion is the fack that are "AS" or is it "SA" in the triangle and "RK" were co-operative or connected companies.

They shared dies and production in the same way that Juncker and Jmme did.

In fact if any one has the late war "AS" in the triangle Minesweeper badge then you will observe that it has the same cast hinge as the late war "RK" minesweeper does.

PAB's by these two makers are also very simular in style, charateristics, hinges and hooks.

If we are going to discuss the maker of the unknown "ball hinge flak" then we have to also consider "RK" as a very likely possibility.

The other unmarked badge which also needs serious investigation in this regard is the "ball hinge glider" badge because again this badge has the same ball hinge, pin and hooks as one would find on a "AS triangle", "RK" or the "ball hinged flak" There is strong possibility that the maker of the "ball hinge glider" is also one of these three.

Very interesting thread and a lovely zinc ball hinge plus case to start it

Chris

[Curt Steinbach]

I have to say this discussion is absolutely fascinating since I do not pretend to be an expert. I like to see this so that I can learn more.

[Norm F]

...
In fact if any one has the late war "AS" in the triangle Minesweeper badge then you will observe that it has the same cast hinge as the late war "RK" minesweeper does.
...
The other unmarked badge which also needs serious investigation in this regard is the "ball hinge glider" badge because again this badge has the same ball hinge, pin and hooks as one would find on a "AS triangle", "RK" or the "ball hinged flak" There is strong possibility that the maker of the "ball hinge glider" is also one of these three.
...
Chris

Hi Chris,

Minesweepers are an area of interest to me, but I must say I've never seen an "AS in triangle" minesweeper with a cast-in hinge like the RK, other than in the rejected ground-dug unfinished samples from Gablonz posted by Pavel a few years ago which never seemed to make it into production.

Also, RK's catch crimps look different from "AS in triangle" catch crimps. I call "AS in triangle" crimps "crater crimps" because of their characteristic crater-like recesses with the sloping outer rim. This is different from other makers' crimps such as RK, MK4 and "MK in triangle", but is very close to the Luft Flaks with the flattened wire catches.

So, although the unmarked Luft Flaks may show other variants as well, the particular variant combining the crater crimp flattened roundwire catch with the circular crimped ball hinge is most evocative of "AS in triangle" above all other makers in my opinion. Sure, it's not proof, but it's a very interesting detail.

Best regards,
---Norm