Is This Ground-Dug GWL Pilot's Badge Worth the Price?

[Matt L]

Hi Guys,

I have the opportunity to buy this ground-dug GWL Flugzeugführerabzeichen for 200€ and I'm wondering: is worth the price?

I've bought a number of ground-dug badges over the past few years because a) it's the only way I could ever afford to have an example of some of them , b) it's a good way to be certain what you're getting is authentic, and c) because they have real character- the 'been there' look to the extreme. This would be the first time I've paid more than $30 for one though.

With the incredible (almost disgusting) increase in the price of these badges in the last 10 years, it's pretty unlikely I'll be able to get one in good condition any time soon, and with them, as you all know, there's the everpresent specter of fakes. So, this one seems like a good opportunity, but I'd like a few opinions on its value before I decide.

Thanks.

Matt

Obverse:



Reverse:

[Frank Heukemes]

IMO much too much. I would advise you not to pay in excess of 30-40 EUR for it.

[Matt L]

Thanks Frank (quickest reply I've ever seen )- I offered 50€ since its condition isn't all that bad, but was told that usually a badge like this one would bring 200€. Honestly, I find that very hard to believe, however when I was trying to authenticate it by looking at past threads here, I noticed that a nice one could cost as much as $900US or more... that made me wonder if I might not be passing on a good thing.

[Tim B.]

Totally disagree with Frank!

I think 30-40 Euros is too much!

Do you even like to look at this piece--honestly? Save your money and at least get something smaller or cheaper for that money that you can look at and say--that's neat!
Tim

[Matt L]

Actually Tim, I do like to look at it - but then I do like ground-dug stuff a little more than most I think. It's a matter of personal taste I suppose.

[Mauser]

Invest in quality

Matt, also take into consideration the investment side of our hobby, the item is in very poor condition and wont increase greatly in value over the years as a long term investment. I agree with Frank and Tim.

Invest in quality and the returns will be very rewarding. Good pieces can only go up in value.

Kindest Regards

Mark

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Tim,

Collecting ground dug badges is a "special culture" which e.g. many German collectors enjoy.

In these circles badges like these do actually bring 40-50 EUR.

I personally (but I am a very different kind of collector and this is not said to denote ground dug collectors) would not pay ANYTHING for it as for me it is ruined.

[skip]

If you really like ground dug badges I think 30-40 Euro would be OK for this badge. It looks to be quiet solid still and with a little bit of vaseline it would be relic condition.

Skip

[Matt L]

Dear Tim,

Collecting ground dug badges is a "special culture" which e.g. many German collectors enjoy.

In these circles badges like these do actually bring 40-50 EUR.

I personally (but I am a very different kind of collector and this is not said to denote ground dug collectors) would not pay ANYTHING for it as for me it is ruined.

I feel the same way about 'De-Nazified' items- can't stand 'em - but I, as a 'ground-dug collector', could hardly criticize anyone who does. Each to his own, right? Besides, when something has no value to a portion of collectors, it makes it more affordable for those of us who do like them.

Mark, I honestly rarely consider collecting as an investment. Sure, it's nice to know that things will increase in value over time, but that's just a happy side-effect to me. Not meaning any offense to those who do, but I feel that it's the investment aspect that is quite adversely affecting this hobby. People are now buying things not because they like them or they're interested, but because they increase in value. Prices get driven up and pretty soon things are out of range for most of us and new collectors can just forget about it.

Actually, this is partly what got me interested in ground-dug items- the prices are still reasonable. Also often you know where something was found, and that makes it even more intersting. For example, I have a Panzerkampfabzeichen in Silber that was recovered just outside of Zhitomir so could have belonged to a Panzermann of the 1. Panzer Division, 7. Panzer Division, 2. SS-Panzer Division, etc. I guess it's the amateur 'archaeologist' in me

[Bill Grist]

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IN MHO.. IT SHOULD BE PUT BACK IN THE GRAVE, SO IT CAN SLEEP WITH THE RECEIPENT...WFG

[Matt L]

IN MHO.. IT SHOULD BE PUT BACK IN THE GRAVE, SO IT CAN SLEEP WITH THE RECEIPENT...WFG

It was not taken from a grave Bill- it was recovered by a fellow in Germany actually with a lot of other badges, coins and other stuff that was probably discarded at the end of the war or stolen from prisoners...

[Tim B.]

Matt,

My apologies sir, you are absolutely 100% correct in your thinking. It is in the eyes of the collector what he or she desires and finds "collectable".

I have to agree that the prices are better than what I have been paying! But I wouldn't think too many people are competing with you and would tend to think you should pay a lot less for that particular piece IMHO.
Tim

[Matt L]

Matt,

My apologies sir, you are absolutely 100% correct in your thinking. It is in the eyes of the collector what he or she desires and finds "collectable".

I have to agree that the prices are better than what I have been paying! But I wouldn't think too many people are competing with you and would tend to think you should pay a lot less for that particular piece IMHO.
Tim

Please, Tim, no apologies are necessary- I certainly didn't take any offense to you not liking this badge. Indeed the lack of competition is a very nice aspect to this 'subset' of the hobby.

It certainly seems that everyone agrees it isn't worth the price asked. Even though only a few people have responded, I'd have expected if it was worth more, I wouldn't get any negative opinions...

[sb98]

IN MHO.. IT SHOULD BE PUT BACK IN THE GRAVE, SO IT CAN SLEEP WITH THE RECEIPENT...WFG

I'm sure most of the dug badges on the market (I'm not saying this one in particular) must have been buried with the fallen soldier, especially the ones coming out of eastern Europe. I can't imagine many badges would just fall off and be left behind but rather on his uniform when he was buried in the field. With the price of WWII items climbing all the time this is an area ripe for the picking.
Tim

[Matt L]

Indeed Tim this is possible- especially in Eastern Europe and Russia. However, at the end of the war, quite a lot of material was simply discarded by soldiers or confiscated and dumped. A friend of mine knows of a couple of places in the Czech Republic where confiscated items from the surrendering 9. Armee were dumped en masse. There are metal detectorists all over Western Europe too who find items all the time. I agree that it's unlikely things were simply lost all that often (although since the Germans wore their badges and medals in combat, who knows?) but they were often discarded at the end of the war- I've heard stories from my Great Uncle and other Wehrmacht vets who did this in an attempt to avoid being identified as soldiers- especially in the East.