Retired Pilot's Badge - Question

[fliegerass]

another one ..

[Leroy]

Here is the catch from an S&L Panzer badge now for sale on eStand. Is it the same as that on Chris' badge in Post #54?

P.S. Fliegerass - interesting badge!

[D.Trooper]

Thanks Steve P glad you like the thread.

Here are some pictures of the first model Juncker.



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[D.Trooper]

one more

[D.Trooper]

back

[D.Trooper]

.,

[Leroy]

A lot of interesting stuff to look at on this thread and it's really good to see the efforts of everyone here to post all these photos!

Is it possible to get weights and exact dimensions for all these badges? Although things are getting more complicated with computer assisted design and topographic mapping techniques, I have a feeling that many of our problems, especially with older badges, could be solved by being able to more definitively determine what has been cast and what has been die-struck. (Even real die-cast badges should be larger than the fake versions.) There are some well-done castings which capture extremely small detail, but a casting (I am informed by our engineer brethren) will ALWAYS be smaller, even if only very, very slightly so.

[Steve P]

Thanks Steve P glad you like the thread.

Here are some pictures of the first model Juncker.

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D. Trooper, What a beautiful Juncker badge mate! Thanks for the fantastic pics...

I am so glad that so many guys have put up such great photos of badges (genuine and fake)...It is very much appreciated...Please keep them coming. It is such a beautiful badge IMO. Thanks again!

[Leroy]

Here's the hinge on an S&L 2nd model flak badge (photo originally posted by Marc Galasco on GCA).

[90th Light]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the clarification on the vet story. Its always good to have the provenance on record, no matter how strong or weak it may be. Every aspect of how these badges were acquired as well as their physical attributes all goes into the pot to help make sense out of these badges.

Here is the hinge I am talking about. Note the small oblong plate, very different from the types used by Deumer on their wartime zinc AG and ROAG badges. The hinge itself is also unique, it is thick and narrow, not really a match to the ones used on wartime badges, but very commonly found on 1957 badges IMO.

Tom

Hello Tom,

thanks I see now what you mean. You have done a great job on pointing out the post war characteristics which are causing you concern but have we also balanced this with the war time characteristics which speak in favour of the some of these "chicken leg" types being war time.

After all if they are all post war then how did they get on to the salesmens sample boards in 1945.

My feeling is that this design and some of these esp. the "L/11" examples were in existance from 1944 onwards.

Anyway, sticking with the approach you like, I have asked ebony to post some more images for me to illustrate the war-time footprints we need to consider.

I will add some comments to each one when he is finished,

Chris

[ebony]

1 This hinge and hook are the same as on Leroy's L/11 Retired Pilot badge are they not ? War time and used by more than one company. This one probably dates from the same time that Leroy's one was also being made. May be a bit before perhaps. Later in the war but before May 45 for sure.

[ebony]

2 Same hinge and hook as on Chris's example except this time it is S&L (note Panzer has a repaired hook). Also refer to the one in post 92.

[ebony]

3 In fact that hinge and hook are seen on several war-time badges of the period before May 45. The pilot badge has a hook like the one on Leroy's retired pilot badge so it shows different combinations were used depending on what they could get at the time to keep the production going.

[ebony]

4 Deumer also used an oblong plate under the hinges on some of their later zinc badges

[ebony]

5 See, hinge sweated on to the oblong plate. What other badges have this type of hinge or is it something only unique to Deumer zinc aircrew badges ? In fact is it seen on anything other than their AG/RO badge or their AG/FE badge ?