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**juvatwad** · 10-27-2009, 08:20 AM

Hate to ask for a value on threads like this but im kinda at a loss with these items.

You already knew the value when you opened the thread, because all three already have a price on them. I presume you know the value of your own rings you would have to trade for them as well, so the only angle I can figure is you want to turn a buck by selling these for more than you paid on the e-stand.

Ian

**Wijtman01** · 10-27-2009, 08:30 AM

hy ian i think matt is just trying to figure out if he is making a bargain or not

he is not the profit type of guy

**afrikasandman** · 10-27-2009, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by juvatwad View Post

You already knew the value when you opened the thread, because all three already have a price on them. I presume you know the value of your own rings you would have to trade for them as well, so the only angle I can figure is you want to turn a buck by selling these for more than you paid on the e-stand.

Ian

Ian,

Well I know what the asking price is but I don't know what the hell these things go for in luft collecting circle. Second of all im not that interested in turning a profit on them, just looking to get back out of it what I would have in them and hook a fellow collector up with an item they want.
I don't really care for your tone, its people like yourself that come out accuseing people of trying to turn some huge profit that make this no fun. Again I don't collect badges/clasps of the luftwaffe. Im just curious what these go for so I don't overpay and then get stuck with the clasp and in turn make someone else happy. Its not my area but figured I would try to be a decent collector and help someone else get a nice badge for a good price. Im not in this to make money on the deal, so if you want to come out and attack me and be a dick then don't comment on this thread. So if you got nothing nice or decent to say then don't say anything at all. Matt

**afrikasandman** · 10-27-2009, 08:36 AM

Im not here to screw anyone over, the tropical collectors on this forum know me to be a straight shooting guy. Just trying to help the luft guys out but after this I will no longer try to help yal gain some semi desirable items. Hope your happy Ian. Again, its collectors like you that make this no fun for anyone involved. Matt

**Jos L C** · 10-27-2009, 09:11 AM

Just trying to help the luft guys out but after this I will no longer try to help yal gain some semi desirable items.

Sounds like school .., someone drops a pen and whole class has to stay a extra hour..

Back to the needle .., might be replaced during war, but these R.K. needles don't break that easy for they're not soldered, think it's almost impossible to break it if one would try..
Think the needle got lost or was used for something else ..
Think replacing it wasn't hard because there're many broken clasps or ones which suffer from zinkpest .., I even saw a couple of flat needles for sale on ebay a while ago..
Think the price is reasonable, but one has to remember that it could be a issue when selling, some don't care, but others just like a original product.

Jos.

**Wijtman01** · 10-27-2009, 10:05 AM

totaly agree with you matt,

ian its a bit weird to acuse someone its not the way we do and i hope its just a typing error of brining it wrong

cheers all

nice clasp for a budget collector

**afrikasandman** · 10-27-2009, 11:23 AM

Jos,

I appreciate your comments as you are far more experienced than I in this and many other areas. Never owned one of these clasps but they do look like they would be much harder to break than your average IAB ect. Appreciate the words of wisdom. Matt

**Thomas Durante** · 10-27-2009, 12:26 PM

Hi guys,

I have to agree here that there is NOTHING wrong with a collector asking for opinions on what badges go for. Doesn't mean he is out to flip the clasp at all, but can simply mean that he wants to know the going rate of these to see if the asking price is reasonable. I agree that Ian's post is uncalled for and unfair to cast such a judgement onto someone.

I don't know Matt at all, but simply through the forum and based solely on that, he seems like a good, honest collector.

Tom

**Tim O.** · 10-27-2009, 12:46 PM

Well done for stepping in Tom. It is none of my business really but it saddens me how many threads seem to be turning nasty recently with name-calling and insults flying. I have had a lot of help from a lot of folk on this forum. Most of them don't know me at all but have been generous with their time and advice. I have learnt a great deal from them all. This is a great place to retreat for sanctuary after a hard day at work so please can we keep things civil - it's a hobby and it's meant to be fun!

Apologies for butting in - just passing through....

**afrikasandman** · 10-27-2009, 02:20 PM

Thanks guys for jumping in, not needed but do appreciate it

There are a lot of great, knowledgable, and very friendly collectors. But there will always be those few that no matter what are always pissed at the world. Thank you for the help on the clasp everyone, first rate knowledge and mostly very helpful responses. I really do appreciate it. Matt

**juvatwad** · 10-27-2009, 11:04 PM

Matt,

I truly don't care what you think of my "tone", and as far as I can tell, the only one name calling around here is you. You did just call me a "dick", right? Also, why are you being so defensive? There are tons of threads here about the bane of profit seeking when it comes to these items. Some of the posters on this thread figure prominently in those threads as well. If that's not your motivation, then fine.

Here is my explanation, all of you can take it however you want, and I'll keep it general for illustrative purposes:

A guy starts a thread about about an item he's thinking about acquiring. He doesn't collect this type of item, so he asks about authenticity and value, stating he will probably offer it up on the e-stand to give us a deal. I have to wonder, though, since the item is already available on a dealer's site at a fixed price, why doesn't he just reference the add in the thread and ask if it's real, and if the asking price is reasonable? When that doesn't happen, I become suspicious. Maybe he's fishing to see if responders to his post think the item can pull more on the e-stand than the dealer is asking, or maybe he doesn't want to clue a potential buyer in on the item so it doesn't get scooped from under him. If he's stated that he doesn't collect that type of item, though, the former possibility seems more likely to me. That guy who bought a goblet for a bargain from Collectors Guild then offered it for sale immediately at a higher price on the e-stand caught all kinds of grief from forum members for that, didn't he?

Matt, you also state you just want to "hook a fellow collector up". Once again, why not just point everyone to the items on Third Reich Depot?

It baffles me that all of you got so worked up when this possibility was even suggested. It's bizarre, actually, that everyone has gotten so apoplectic about this. All you had to do, Matt, was state that wasn't your intent, but you chose to insult me instead. Overly defensive counterpoints reveal alot to me.

Finally, Thomas, since you pointed out that my suspicion is uncalled for, I'd like to know if Matt calling me a "dick" is uncalled for as well, since you are a moderator?

Ian (The one who actually kept his posts civil).......

**Wijtman01** · 10-28-2009, 12:52 AM

and its these kind of reactions that make a thread turn bad, its such a shame i aint attacking you ian, but this isnt going the right way, blaming eachother

**Thomas Durante** · 10-28-2009, 06:40 AM

Ian, the only one acting inappropriately is YOU.

Your accusations are uncalled for and misplaced because you have no evidence to support your claim. Matt is simply asking for advice about the price of clasps, nothing more. You are insinuating that his INTENTIONS are to sell these clasps for profit, yet there is absolutely no evidence of that.

That is why this thread is different than "all the other threads about profittering". That is also why many guys have come out in support of Matt and why you look like a fool right about now.

Tom

**afrikasandman** · 10-28-2009, 07:40 AM

Ian,

Let me address your points one at a time for you. I wanted to get a general idea of what these badges are worth from collector to collector. The prices that dealers get and what collectors buy and sell for are usually different. A excellent example are Afrika cuff titles, most dealers ask in excess of 400-600 dollars for their examples. Which everyone is entitled to ask what they feel is appropriate but I have never paid more then 350 for one of these cuffs. 50 dollars can make the difference between you selling an item to fund the purchase of others and not selling it, especially in this market an economy we face today. So by me asking what these go for, I was simply looking for what a fair price would be for this badge. I don't wanna buy a badge in an area that I don't collect and get stuck with it. Again I don't collect luftwaffe awards, just though I would try to help someone who does acquire a hard to find badge for a fair price. I have no problem paying what market value is for a item, I just don't like to overpay unless its something that I have to have really badly. I wanted to be able to pass the item along at a price that others would be interested in the badge at. I and certainly most collectors on this forum don't have never ending pocketbooks that can just pay what ever for an item. There are members here who can and do, but I am not one of them so I try to help out fellow collectors like myself. If you have too much money and no patients you can call Steve Wolfe and he can get you what ever your heart desires, but I don't have that luxury so I have to be patient, wait and hope the items I need come up.

2. Secondly, me "hook a fellow collector up" simply translates to me helping someone who collects this type of award actually get an example. As I have come to find out R.K. badges are a bit hard to come by, so it would have been great to have been able to help someone get a badge that they have searched. Plus it may lead to them helping me out down the road with something im looking for. So in the end all parties benefit.

3. Why didn't I just direct everyone to www.thirdreichdepot.com, well perhaps you are new around here or what not but some people have issues with certain dealers. Christine is no exception and especially on the SS forum. Some people have issues with her, Craig Gottlieb and a million others. So by naming the dealer or their site is can actually skew the discussion of the item. Hell even Charlie Snyder has some original items on his site (be it that they are few and far in between, but the sun does shine on a dog's axx every now and then) but because he owns it its instantly considered bad because of his reputation. I could care less who I buy the item from, as long as its an original and I don't overpay. I, like any other collector, love to get a bit of a deal on an item. Additionally, its a pain in the axx to be like click on this link and go to this section on this persons site and scroll down to items xyz to look at the item. Its easier to post a pic and discuss the item right here and now, that is why this forum exists. Its gives a relatively unbiased opinion, plus you get more than 1 or 2 people who know a bit to comment on an item (usually). Plus you can compare it with other now originals in other threads.

4. Lastly I will address me calling you a "dick". Granted it wasn't right to lash out at ya, but when im attacked im gonna go into a bit more of a defensive mode. Its human instinct to be defensive when people are making accusations about you, which you blatantly did. You are still being a "dick" in my opinion based on your snide comments and completely false accusations about my intentions on this forum. I don't know you from a hole in the ground and honestly can only hope I never have to meet you. I don't need to see any more miserable people in this hobby. If your so pissed off like this all the time then this is the wrong hobby for you. Since you seem to feel that you know me so well that you know im just out to screw people over by profiteering let me tell you a little bit about myself. Im a young Army officer (currently deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom) and proud to be able to serve my country. I don't care for my MOS but that is all changing soon. I live the Army values (Loyalty, Duty,Respect, Selfless service, Honesty, Integrity and Personal Courage) and my word is my binding agreement. I don't say I will take something and back out of it, nor do I look to stick it to my fellow collectors by making a huge profit or by selling them a fake item. I strive to be fair and equal in all that I do and am always honest about any item regardless of what it is. So now you know a little bit about me, I hope you feel like you have read me like a book, because you couldn't be more wrong about me. So maybe next time you should be a bit more restrained with your comments unless you know who you are talking about. Its better to be thought a fool and say nothing than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Matt

**afrikasandman** · 10-28-2009, 07:42 AM

Additionally, I am done with this issue, sorry for the length of the above post. I really have nothing else to say about this item other than thanks for EVERYONES opinions (even Ian's cheery point of view) Matt

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