Juncker FJ Badge

[Tim Calvert]

...top view of clasp. Notice the plier marks on the clasp. I've found similar marks on at least one of my Juncker pilot's badges also.

[Tim Calvert]

...swas. I know that many examples have the thinner left arm. Is it a die characteristic, or due to hand finishing?

[Tim Calvert]

...swas. I know that many examples have the thinner left arm. Is it a die characteristic, or due to hand finishing?

Notice the right arm of the swas when viewed from behind. It is thinner here. Maybe some of swasi's, when hand finished, were cut out from the back following this line???

[Tim Calvert]

Let me also say that in no way do I consider myself an expert. I won't discount the fact that I have a fair amount of experience handling badges. I love this hobby and have spent one hell of a lot of time with my 10x magnifier, it's never work, always enjoyable.

I have the highest respect for Andy, he has tons of experience and if this badge made him have second thoughts then maybe the fakes are getting very good.

I only want to get as close to the truth as possible.

[François SAEZ]

Is there a "kind" of rust on the hook and on the base of thr hook?

[Tim Calvert]

Is there a "kind" of rust on the hook and on the base of thr hook?

Negative on the rust question.

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi Tim. Here are some pics of the talon and swaz area on mine to compare.
I see many more good points on your badge than I see bad. The only things I note are that the reverse wreath on mine is very "stipled" as compared to yours. Also the obverse swaz on mine as a more finished appearance. Mmmm, also the catch on mine as the "beveled" bottom. However I also see many fine details on yours that match to mine.

I do not see any signs of casting on yours, It looks to me as if forged from an original die. I hope mine is not also cast.

I think there is a possibility of "late" production in yours that could explain the "straight" swaz. I have always thought it curious that Juncker would issue these "cock-eyed" swaz's on the Para badge. perhaps they attempted to correct it in a later production run.
Picture 1

[Lorenzo Brown]

Picture 2

[Jos L C]

I must say that Tim's badge looks much better now on these new pics..
Still I've no clear view of what the exact color looks like..etc.

Tim,can you provide a "daylight" picture like the Lorenzo ones ?
And Lorenzo..,may we see your whole badge..?

Jos.

[Luftm40]

Well, Tim takes better pictures than I do I am really curious to get to the bottom of this. Tim, I thought about it some more....the other things that made we wonder about the badge were the soft details on the wreath, the very crude clipping of the catch (which I mentioned to you) and also the finish of the eagle. It didn't look like the normal fire gilding to me. But then again, if real, this badge is stone cold mint...and how many times do you see one of these? I also must admit to being put off by the original source of this badge in Europe...someone I would never buy anything from directly. During the original comparison, I also became a little confused...were we comparing this badge to known originals, or just other examples of this badge? I would still like to see pics of a 100% bonafide original with air tight provenance. Anywho, I learned a long time ago to listen to my gut instincts. I've missed out on some nice pieces as a result, but also avoided a lot of fakes. I am in no way shape or form an "expert" on any of this stuff, and I really hope for Tim's sake that the badge turns out real. If so, I owe him one for the headache!

ps-Francois, the "rust" you see under the catch is a bright, shiny copper color, I guess from the soldering..another thing I thought strange

[Jos L C]

Yeah,I think it's a good thing to overlook it thoroughly..
We're talking about a black wreath buntmetal Juncker parabadge..
I always considered it as a rather rare badge in these conditions and I've found about 7 or 8 of these in this quality on dealers sites lately..
coincidence..,but you've to be suspicious these days..IMO.
So,I'd like to see as many details as possible ..

Jos.

[Tim Calvert]

"were we comparing this badge to known originals, or just other examples of this badge? I would still like to see pics of a 100% bonafide original with air tight provenance"

Andy, that's an excellent point.

Lorenzo, could you please supply a pic of your clasp, shot at an angle? I think a shot of your hallmark would show that your badge is earlier than mine too.

Jos, it's dark and gloomy here in Seat-hell and the sun will be down soon. I'll try to get a daylight shot for you tomorrow. Also, I'll try to get that line on the top of the eagle to come out.

[Lorenzo Brown]

Sorry, Tim. My badge doesn't have the "airtight provenance" requirement, so I'm going out for the evening. (Although I am 100% confident of it).

Perhaps Jos or Francois can provide the required "airtight provenance" badge for us?

[Jos L C]

Airtight provenance is always very rare to find...
Then there has to be something like Tim's Knightcross...
The cross seen on picture worn by the recipient and every scratch can be compared..
That's impossible for the majority of badges unfortunately..
In this case we have to do it with the knowledge we have.

Jos.

[Luftm40]

Well, I would settle for a reliable collector who vet acquired one of these...or someone who got one directly from a recipient or family member..that would put us ahead of where we are now...a bunch of pieces from dealers.