Combined Pilots Observers badge

[MrSmith]

Hello,

I would appreciate some thoughts and comments on this Combined Pilots Observers badge

I don't have weights or measurements of it, can anyone please advise if it is fake or genuine, if you feel it is fake, can you please advise what pointers to look for,

[Mike Kenny]

100% fake. Search for "dip wreath repro" and the reasons will be revealed!

Regards
Mike

[MrSmith]

Mike, thank you for your help, yes I see what you mean now about the "dip" at the wreath at the bottom

I found this:

as a 'dip wreath' repro (note the 'squeeze' of the wreath at the bottom causing a pronounced dip under the swaz)

I have tried to find a nice large picture, in similar format to these pictures of a genuine Pilot or P/O badge but cannot find them on the forum,

can you help at all please?

[Thomas Durante]

Indeed a poor copy.

Here are pics of a nice Juncker PO, courtesy of the great Mark Miller collection.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

r

[MrSmith]

Tom many thanks to you, it is light night and day comparing large sized images of this fake to a good badge,


I can see clearly now how the bottom of the wreath is shaped evenly on the original and pulled or dropped on the fake.


thank you to both of you.

[Gene]

Actually I think it's a nice copy. Made to fool the unsuspected (as are all fakes, I guess) but this one does look nice as a filler piece, if bought as a repro with a corresponding price.

[rfleming32]

The reproduction badge you show is supposed to be what is refered to as a J3, the last style of pilot badge made by Juncker. Mark Millers badge shown above is a J1 an earlier version. This one is a J2 which is earlier than the J3 but more similar for comparison.

[MrSmith]

Do you mean the J3 is the more rounded shape badge? Or am I thinking of something completely different?

Is there any known reason why they changed the style of the badge then? Simply dies being replaced and remade or ?


thank you all once again for your help.

[rfleming32]

Take a look at this:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=189407

That should clarify things somewhat

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

If you compare the eagle on the fake, it is a copy of a J1 Juncker eagle and most similar to Mark Miller's that I posted. It is very different from a J2 or J3 eagle.

The eagle was the only aspect of that badge that was close to an original J1. The wreath of the fake is not close to any Juncker, but most similar to an Assmann wreath.

Tom

[Milan Gard]

Indeed a poor copy.

Here are pics of a nice Juncker PO, courtesy of the great Mark Miller collection.

Tom

Hello Tom is this one - 2nd type Juncker?

[Thomas Durante]

That is a first pattern Juncker, commonly referred to as a J1. The wreath is very thin, but the most noticable difference can be seen in the eagle's eye, which is a solid round dot on the J1s. On J2s and J3s, the eagles eye is different, and also major differnces in the wings and talons can also be seen.

Here is a nice montage of the 3 different patterns. There is also a 4th type of Juncker wreath that was used on the zink Pilots badges, which can be referred to as a J4 wreath.

Tom

[IVAN]

I agree, known fake, sorry..
Ivan