Osang Schlachtflieger Flight Clasp, 2 types???

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear all,

Would anybody of you advanced Luftwaffe collectors know if there are two types of original Schlachtflieger clasps by maker Osang?

Type 1:
- 4 triangle shaped cutouts (on the oakleaf wings)
-typical Osang maker´s mark

Type 2:
-4 round shaped cutouts (on the oakleaf wings)
-Osang maker´s mark with more round, stout letters
-also different obverse die

I am asking because I am being offered this by a serious collector and because I have the clasp here and it looks good generally. Itz is just different from other (Andy Hopkins´ & Paul W´s) Osang Schlachtflieger clasps I have in my files, which are Type 1.

Any clues? Help is very much appreciated.

Cheers, Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

reverse

[Frank Heukemes]

opened

[Frank Heukemes]

mark

[Frank Heukemes]

middle detail

[Frank Heukemes]

hanger

[Frank Heukemes]

Here are some differences between type 1 and 2. Check out the leaves:

[Frank Heukemes]

Check out the maker´s marks and the drillhole shapes

[François SAEZ]

Well this one is difficult

I have seen both types I & II but, for me and for my collection, I will go for what you call type I
- 4 triangle shaped cutouts (on the oakleaf wings)
-typical Osang maker´s mark
Answer based on the fact that those clasps appeared in April 1944 and that most - BUT NOT ALL, special clasps like Schlachtflieger of the late war clasps (production and issue) have 4 triangles


That doesn't mean the other one is not good, but only that for a late war clasps and late war issue clasps I understand more the triangles than the rounds which I prefer for early and mid war clasps.

I am not sure I am clear and I accept to be wrong

[Jos L C]

Hi Frank,
I like both clasps,I think François has a point but I can't find anything wrong at typ 2 for the moment....
I believe I even saw one without any holes in it...

I think a zink clasp having round holes in it is much stronger than having the triangular ones...so maybe they started triangular,then turned back to round and then none...just something to consider...
Maybe it has nothing to do with all that because it was only a cosmetic aspect... you'll never know with those Germans...

Jos.

[Frank Heukemes]

Thanks, I get the "hole" thing, but what do you guys make of Osang feeling the need to have:
1) completely new obverse die
2) completely different maker´s mark
3) and the new holes

within about a year since those clasps came into being? Isn´t that strange?

Cheers, Frank

[Jos L C]

I don't get the picture of always talking about makers always using one die or mould...why ?
Because they were expensive ..?
I don't believe that in a war were you could loose several planes,tanks and ships a day a factory only got one die or mould to produce badges at a time the demand was high...
Maybe they used a second mould at moments a large order came in..?
So,not much of the second typ badges were made,but only at that moment..?

Lately I saw a IMME pilotsbadge I've never seen before,the one with the cut-out hole between the claws,it has more or less the claw's of the OM bird, totally different eagle... a completely different badge...I've seen 3 now...and they're original...

Jos

[RPN]

Hello Frank

Interesting!

I've been going through my files all afternoon and I haven't found your "Type 2" (not yet, at least). Also looked at all of the Osang bars on Messrs Weitze and Winkler's websites ... all Type 1.

Year before last I closely examined the clasps in the collection of the Australian War Memorial (located in our capital Canberra) ... they have in storage about 26 or so clasps which were donated by 2 returned men (POWs) ... all late war, zinc, and brought back from Germany at war's end ... they were obtained out of stores. Six of these are Osang pieces - and two of these six Schlachtflieger. All of these Osang pieces have the triangular cutouts.

I have only one pic of an Osang Schlachtflieger without the cutouts ... unfortunately too small a pic to get any detail, but I'll email it to you in case it's useful (can't post it here as it's not mine).

Great photos too Frank ... I look forward to more detective work. Perhaps Gene has some knowledge here?

Regards
Paul

[Gene]

Guys,

I emailed Frank privately about my observations but basically they reflect what has been said here.

[DZR]

Osang Schlachtflieger Clasp

I believe this is a zinc type 1.

I think it's a silver grade, with a gold hue to the patina (exagerated in the scan), but it's hard to tell. Thoughts?