honor goblet value

[frankandfrank]

The goblet is original. The other is nonsens fake ! Bad engraving without any sense.

It seems that s a poor fantasy story from Hermann Historica .

[Brian S]

The goblet is original. The other is nonsens fake ! Bad engraving without any sense.

what which

[Gene]

The engraving on that "Mölders" goblet is not period IMO. It looks rather amateurish to be honest.

[Brian S]

I think pretty well done but doesn’t conform.

[Jelle M.]

Too be honest i just don't like it. It's easy to dismiss a piece without evidence but i have some serious questions.
What's the sense of a personal dedication with 'Meinem lieben' while the person was already dust and bones? If it was a presentation piece to JG 51 it is very unusual that it's is not mentioned in the dedication on the goblet. For what reason? Out of love? Good ol' uncle Dolf, always in for a nice present. What happened in August 1942 that Hitler decided to honor the squad? In August 1942 JG51 suffered heavy losses with 101(!) BF 109's destroyed and 17 pilots killed or MIA. Losses were heavier than ever before.

The incised engraving is not top quality, for a Hitler presentation piece i would expect better than that. There are some blanco pokals in collections, these are easy victims for forgeries. They could have engraved a famous name on the usual place but that is way more difficult because than you have to follow a standard quality and pattern. Now it's just a freestyle engraving.
I think in this case it's a matter of believing. An Original silver goblet with a dubious engraving. I would never dare to spent such an amount of money without rock solid provenance or period picture proof.
Just my 2 cents

[chen]

I heard the term " blank" goblet many times before but can anyone show one?

[frankandfrank]

There was sold a blanket goblet in a german auction house a few years ago, but i didnt remember the name.

Also in private collection there are a few.

[chen]

Still no photo?

[Jelle M.]

Hi Chen,

i have seen a blank pokal in the 835 version, i believe it was at Weitze's table at Ciney a few years ago. That one looked like it never had an inscription. I don't have any pictures of it.
I do have an alpaca on file but i believe the inscription was manually removed after the war. Common post war practice. On some the inscription was professionaly removed, when it patinates again it's sometimes difficult to see.

I have seen other engravings from high ranked nazi on Sedlatzek pokals. On the same place engraved as the Mölders pokal. I know they made goblets in 925 silver with a customer desired engraving in the 60's.
That's why i'm leary seeing the Mölders engraving, especially when nothing else makes sense.

[chen]

Hello Nightstalker,
Thanks for the information.
Perhaps one day I can see one blank one.
That Molders' goblet is 835.
If I am a faker, I will not waste a good blank goblet to engrave Molders' unit name but instead ,using right tool and technique, to engrave a famous name at the name band.

[Jelle M.]

If I am a faker, I will not waste a good blank goblet to engrave Molders' unit name.

Why not? You won't sell the blank goblet with a starting price of 12 000€ exc.

[chen]

Why not? You won't sell the blank goblet with a starting price of 12 000€ exc.

You misunderstand me.
I mean if I have a blank goblet, I would rather to engrave a famous pilot name at the name band rather than engrave at the main body.

[Sebastien T]

Im no expert on pokal, have only one in my collection from a high scorer ace but my understanding is that no 835 goblet were issue in 1942. They most likely were in alpaca from somewhere in 1941 onward? So that bring the proof that plain 835 do exist and that the engraving could be a forgery?

[Brian S]

I still don't see any issue with the engraving from the SINGLE photo above. And it still makes no sense... But I thought the same as Chen, blank pokal, put some famous name on it like Marseille

[chen]

Hi Chen,

i have seen a blank pokal in the 835 version, i believe it was at Weitze's table at Ciney a few years ago. That one looked like it never had an inscription. I don't have any pictures of it.
I do have an alpaca on file but i believe the inscription was manually removed after the war. Common post war practice. On some the inscription was professionaly removed, when it patinates again it's sometimes difficult to see.

I have seen other engravings from high ranked nazi on Sedlatzek pokals. On the same place engraved as the Mölders pokal. I know they made goblets in 925 silver with a customer desired engraving in the 60's.
That's why i'm leary seeing the Mölders engraving, especially when nothing else makes sense.

Nightstalker,
This must be one of those Sedlatzek goblets you talk about. This example is to Goring in 925 marking. I have no idea who ,when, why this kind of goblet is made for. Also why 925?