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    #196
    Don't worry the 25th of May is date of the Ehrenliste and this date never matches the goblet's date. But the date on your Ehrenpokal perfectly matches with the date on the Leutnant Werner Dalstein's document which has been recently sold in an auction in Germany (along with the DK document) this year....
    Crazy thing; you own this Ehrenpokal and somewhere a guy has just bought the document....Would be great to see them reunited.

    It isn't a Stuka pilot but Kampgeschwader 26 pilot. "Staka" is the shortening for "Staffelkapitän".

    Pierre
    Last edited by Pierre; 07-16-2016, 05:52 PM.

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      #197
      Perhaps Mike Everett can take a moment to update goblet prices for us. Its like a state of the Union address for Goblet collectors. Thanks.

      Comment

        #198
        An Alpaka Pokal, to OFW Ernst Quaas, who was a bomber pilot with 5./KG 26, and also awarded the DKiG...

        Comment

          #199
          That's a beautiful Ehrenpokal you posted.....I would love to get a decent one for the collection. Here's another vote for updated prices...would be fantastic to get an idea what's a fair price nowadays. Thanks.

          Comment

            #200
            I think anyone who claims to provide a listing of Pokal market prices is blowing self serving smoke... There is a very very long list today of what makes a Pokal more valuable to someone.

            An absolutely not exhaustive list of examples;

            Silver versus Alpaks
            Pilot versus ROAG or other
            RK winner: Oakleaves? Swords? How won?
            DK winner
            Night Fighter
            Stuka
            Fighter and now did he have kills? How many?
            East front/West front/Afrika/Mediterranean...
            Photos of winner with Pokal or easily available
            Spange: What level
            Pokal condition: Alpaka worn off? Dented badly? This might not even be a factor depending on the "who".

            This isn't meant to be exhaustive its meant to convey there is no easy answer. If you find an Alpaka Pokal to an unknown engineer with no silver loss you can probably get an easy answer, beyond that, there is no formula.

            Comment

              #201
              I agree with Brian.

              Prices are all over the place and depend on many factors. I arguably paid too much for a Pokal last year as it was 'just' for an Air Gunner. But the condition was fantastic and I have all this man's award documents and a bunch of photos already so I was happy to bid a little higher.

              Best wishes
              Tim O.

              Comment

                #202
                Thanks for the heads up chaps, much appreciated. Caveat emptor I guess then.....so,e really crazy prices out there. Looks like the great condition pilot pokal that just sold for £2890 on e-stand was good value I guess.

                Comment

                  #203
                  I thought that was a VERY decent price. Good value to whoever picked it up In My Opinion!

                  Look at some of the military sites with Pokals, I can think of one that has several ROAG cups, look great, but haven't sold.

                  If the who/what/etc does not matter to you then make an offer on an ROAG Pokal to fill a display gap.

                  I would add that rank makes no difference, to me. An Oberfeldwebel RK Winner with 50 kills in the west and many in Afrika in an ME109, heck yeah. Hauptmann, Oberst, who cares, what did he DO!

                  Beginner collectors don't get that until they've overpaid for a Pokal from an experienced collector who's looking for documented substance. Emphasis on documented. ALL these guys with Pokals earned them but on so many so little is known...
                  Last edited by Brian S; 01-19-2017, 02:24 PM.

                  Comment

                    #204
                    Honor goblet with documents of a KC holder

                    Complete documentary records of KC holder from the Luftwaffe with honor goblet are very rare. Still more rare are these, with the honor goblet of silver. Assume that there are still a maximum of 70 complete documentary sentences from KC holder with the associated honor goblet in silver.

                    Comment

                      #205
                      Now that's a question I would be interested to see answered.

                      How many Pokals in Silver awarded to RK "FLIERS", not administrative folks...

                      That would make a very interesting list that could be started in a thread seeking that information. If people don't want to answer directly they could go through a moderator to get the information into the thread.

                      Comment

                        #206
                        Originally posted by Meister30799 View Post
                        Complete documentary records of KC holder from the Luftwaffe with honor goblet are very rare. Still more rare are these, with the honor goblet of silver. Assume that there are still a maximum of 70 complete documentary sentences from KC holder with the associated honor goblet in silver.
                        Great idea to explore. I can start things with one Pokal to a KC holder in my collection. I have:

                        1. 835 Pokal awarded 10th August 1941 to a reconnaissance pilot when he was an Oberfeldwebel with 5.(F)/122
                        3. original EKI, EKII, DKiG in cloth, breast eagle, collar tabs and epaulettes, sports badge in bronze, winter war medal, long service medal IV class, identity tag
                        2. I have his award certificates for the Pokal and DKiG and some of the other awards (but sadly not RK or Operational Flying Clasp in Gold with Pendant)
                        3. I have several flugbuche from start of training (19th October 1936) to the end of his active service (20th December 1944) with 326 Feindfluge from 16th May 1940, including Battle of France, Battle of Britain (based on Jersey for a while) and Russian campaign.
                        4. Wehrpass with all award entries
                        5. Several photo albums
                        6. A lot of newspaper and magazine articles regarding award of the Ritterkreuz on 3rd March 1944 (now a Hauptmann)
                        7. I managed to pick up some original photos of his RK award ceremony separately (awarded by General der Flieger Kurt Pflugbeil)
                        8. A file of many original photo negatives (I need to get them developed)
                        9. A file of original reconnaissance photos and several boxes of glass slides
                        10. Military pilot's licence
                        11. Military observer's licence
                        12. Leistungsbuch covering combat flights up to October 1940
                        13. Various Ausweis
                        14. A detailed list of 302 sorties, perhaps as evidence for the RK recommendation
                        15. Lots of additional papers and articles

                        Happily he survived the war and served as an armed forces recruitment officer in Germany for many years.

                        I love research and there is a lot to pursue here!

                        Best wishes
                        Tim O.
                        Last edited by Tim O.; 01-19-2017, 03:37 PM.

                        Comment

                          #207
                          For those who are interested, the Pokal above was awarded to Werner Breese. Here is the Pokal and an image from his RK award ceremony.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #208
                            I filled some gaps in the Werner Breese grouping by acquiring some of the missing awards (e.g. RK and PO badge) for display purposes. I also attach a propaganda photograph that was issued during WW2 with Breese's signature.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by Tim O.; 01-19-2017, 05:57 PM.

                            Comment

                              #209
                              Just gorgeous Tim and a centerpiece grouping for anyone!

                              Comment

                                #210
                                Tim that's absolutely superb, what an amazing collection and fine way to honour him.

                                Comment

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