Luftwaffe cloth pilot badge

[RamJet]

@ Pierre:

I like especially the embroidered NCO badges as they look much better than the bullion thread officer birds and not so simple as the EM pieces ... but that's only my taste.



But back to the first badge in this thread, the one the topic was started with.

I also was convinced that it was a fake. As Jos already mentioned, we have had such pieces in the forum before.

But now I was told that it came directly from the Fliegerbluse of the grand-uncle from the guy who owns it, and this grand-uncle was a pilot with JG 300. He survived the war and came into British captivity. The badge never was in a collection.

If You compare the badge carefully with the repro Jos has posted, You will find some minor differences. So could it be possible that the known fakes were made to the model standard of a genuine cloth bird and this one was one of this breed?

Have a nice day,
Steve

[Jos L C]

@ Pierre:


I also was convinced that it was a fake. As Jos already mentioned, we have had such pieces in the forum before.

But now I was told that it came directly from the Fliegerbluse of the grand-uncle from the guy who owns it, and this grand-uncle was a pilot with JG 300. He survived the war and came into British captivity. The badge never was in a collection.

Have a nice day,
Steve

Not a chance,Steve...badge has no stitching holes,at least I don't see any in the paper backing,not even one...,so,I don't know how it was attached to the tunic....
I would stay far away from that one..

attached cropped pic of the "holes"...

Jos.

[Jos L C]

This one genuine? If I had found it anywhere, I would have been 200 % sure that it is a repro ...

The first impression and feeling can mislead, I guess. But I really are no expert concerning these cloth badges.

I think yes,I like how the wings are build and I like the kind of bullion..
Badge looks quite simple though,but simple badges did exist..
Just my opinion.

Jos.

[Rammjaeger]

Pilot badge

Guys sorry if I smile about the stiching holes...
Made by a real pro tailor you wont see any holes since its stiched in such a way that it only goes through the surface felt not through and through.
The later adds on are through and through officer items were very well made by "Uniformschneidereien".
These people were artists, unlike the fakers and copiers of nowadays. Have a look on the officer breast eagles and try to find stiching holes if it was on a Fliegerbluse or Tuchrock (from an officer of course and tailor made).
Thanks guys, it´s a pleasure to chat with you...
Horrido
Heinrich
PS: Steve ask your contact if he sells it, if its his uncle´s one and if he is serious about it, he wont.
For me its a good one but a lot of collectors become parano...

[Rammjaeger]

Luftwaffe pilot badge for officers vs NCO

Congratulation Pier, you are the expert.
I like your last post about knot knowing there were badges for officers and NCO´s and that they were different.Welcome in my club of the amateurs.
But you are sure I can find a Hartmann Jacket for 150,--Euro on your flee markets, or is it a jacket of your national Johnny ? You know in 15 years a lot of things changed.
Anyway Piere thanks for your sweet info.
Merci beaucoup Pier

[Jos L C]

Guys sorry if I smile about the stiching holes...
Made by a real pro tailor you wont see any holes since its stiched in such a way that it only goes through the surface felt not through and through.
The later adds on are through and through officer items were very well made by "Uniformschneidereien".
These people were artists, unlike the fakers and copiers of nowadays. Have a look on the officer breast eagles and try to find stiching holes if it was on a Fliegerbluse or Tuchrock (from an officer of course and tailor made).
Thanks guys, it´s a pleasure to chat with you...
Horrido
Heinrich
PS: Steve ask your contact if he sells it, if its his uncle´s one and if he is serious about it, he wont.
For me its a good one but a lot of collectors become parano...

If I were you I would go for such badge, you've convinced me.., I'm all yours now..

Jos.

[Peter Wiking]

Steve
It boils down to what material that is used in your patch. In my opinion the bullion thread is of a modern material. The photo below is of your patch. What i see do not convince me that the patch is pre 1945.

Peter

[Jos L C]

Steve
It boils down to what material that is used in your patch. In my opinion the bullion thread is of a modern material. The photo below is of your patch. What i see do not convince me that the patch is pre 1945.

Peter

Exactly..
Era bullion and the techniques are rather hard to copy.

Jos.

[RamJet]

Thanx guys, but I really put the badge into the forum only to ask for opinions for a friend. I never intended to buy the badge - but if Rammjaeger want it, I can ask if it is for selling, I don't know.

I think that was a real good thread, I learned a lot about cloth pilot badges.
Thanx again for all Your efforts!

Have a nice day,
Steve

[Jos L C]

Thanx guys, but I really put the badge into the forum only to ask for opinions for a friend. I never intended to buy the badge - but if Rammjaeger want it, I can ask if it is for selling, I don't know.

I think that was a real good thread, I learned a lot about cloth pilot badges.
Thanx again for all Your efforts!

Have a nice day,
Steve

You're welcome,
That's what it's all about,to hear some opinions..
Hope you've picked up the right things....
I think Rammjaeger will be interested,it's a nice opportunity to own a nice badge.

Jos.

[Pierre]

Congratulation Pier, you are the expert.
I like your last post about knot knowing there were badges for officers and NCO´s and that they were different.Welcome in my club of the amateurs.
But you are sure I can find a Hartmann Jacket for 150,--Euro on your flee markets, or is it a jacket of your national Johnny ? You know in 15 years a lot of things changed.
Anyway Piere thanks for your sweet info.
Merci beaucoup Pier

Please don't say I am an expert. I am a modest person. If I was an expert I wouldn't be on this forum as I wouldn't have time enough to sign all the COAs which would be asked to me. Sorry but I don't know who is "national Johnny".
I hope that all these "Hartmann leather jackets" in France don't ruin your sleep .

Pierre

[RamJet]

@ Rammjaeger


I asked the owner of the badge and he don't want to sell. Says it should stay in the posession of the family. Sorry for You.


Regards,
Steve

[Rammjaeger]

Pilot badge

Thanks Guys...
Piere!Maybe Johnny Haliday is the French national Johnny.
I just got one Hartmann jacket. Thanks for putting me in contact guys. Saved me a lot of money flying to France. Paid my price but OK. Good investment.

regards
Heinrich

[Jos L C]

I think it's best we see you as the new forum joker with no real interest in militaria other than keeping other people busy with questions of which you don't really like to know the answer..

That's fine.., but don't expect to much answers next future.., besides that your acting tells me you've chosen the option," how long will it take till they kick me out ".., no ?
Instead of irritating other people it would be better trying to learn something and building a genuine collection, which will be rather hard the way you see things now.