And the reverse - I can see what Ivan is talking about - the strikes are almost identical.
ERIC
ERIC
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You guys are right! So this means that there is a new type of wreath belonging to both J2s and J3s?
YuriComment
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......no, I don't think so, I mean only it showes the passage from 2nd and 3rd type, only 2 wreath types I see.Originally posted by Yuri D.
You guys are right! So this means that there is a new type of wreath belonging to both J2s and J3s?
Yuri
IvanLast edited by Yuri D.; 04-19-2012, 07:17 PM.
Ivan BombardieriComment
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Eric and Yuri,
are rivets raised or a bit more high of wreath? I think more high.
Ivan BombardieriComment
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They may be higher. Hard to tell without a profile shot.
YuriComment
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Just raised a little
Hi Yuri and Ivan,
The rivits on mine are raised above the wreath just a tiny bit, almost flush to the wreath - It's hard to see but they are just slightly raised. I also don't think there is another wreath involved here, just the two we know of. I tried to get a good shot from the top - this one is the best one I took to show the "raised" rivit.
ERICComment
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Left rivetComment
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right rivetComment
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Hi Guys,
I'd say Eric's badge is a transition piece, and so is Yuri's. Eric's has a J3 eagle on a J2 wreath. You can see the typical J3 manufacturing characteristics on both badges, rivets with a circle around them, slight change in hinge, pointed pin, etc.
More than likely, there was a time period when the dies were changed and there were eagles and wreaths from both patterns laying around.
You can find JMME's with the J3 eagle on a J2 wreath also.
One other interesting point....J2 eagles always seem to have the hallmark placed higher up than J3s.
Tim (late for work)Comment
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thanks for photos,
they are near identicals. I thought were a bit more high then they are in right side.
Ivan BombardieriComment
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Yuri,
I know I am digging up an old thread but, I had to ask you a question on this beautiful J2 pilot badge. Were all of the eagles on the J2's of tombac or were there some of nickel silver? Your badge here has a real 'silver' look to it. I have heard hints that there were different materials used but as of yet have never heard an absolute on the subject. And how do you really tell the difference between the two different metals? I have a number of Luftwaffe badges that are presumably tombac ( so says the dealers ). How do we really tell? This is something that has always been a mystery to me. Maybe time to take it off of the shelf. Can you help?
Robert
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Nickel always looked a bit yellow-beige-grey to me. Silver has a more metalic color. Can others give us their observations?
YuriComment
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Yuri,
And how does the tombac compare? I have an early B&N L operator/gunner badge that really has a brassy look to the burnished eagle. I presume this to be tombac. I also have two early Juncker observers that are different metal color/type. One is as you described a yellow beige and the other a silver color to the eagles.
I know that the finish on the wreaths of the early flight badges was nickel silver. What was this finish applied over? Were some of the early wreaths solid nickel silver? I know I have a lot of questions. I would like to learn.
RobertComment
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Tombak is basically "diluted" bronze. It's bronze mixed with nickel and zinc. Like 70% bronze, 15% nickel and 15% zinc, although I'm not 100% sure.
YuriComment
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Thanks
Thank you, Yuri.
This helps me see the difference now with my badges. There are a few that have that dull bronze tone while the others really look to be a dull silver. I appreciate your help on this.
Robert
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