What is a real Retired Pilots Worth?

[mmiller]

Hi Jimmy,

We most all agree, Detlev is at the top of the list, no questions about that.

Your badge is a well known, and easily identified, fake. We are just wondering how a badge such as yours, could have slipped by 'one of the best'.

As for the value of your badge, in my opinion, it might be worth $50 - $100 to a reinactor, or to a collector who did not have the $4000 - $7500 for a real one, and wanted a 'filler'. If anyone thinks those prices are high, please find me one cheaper, and I'll pay you a $500 'finder's fee'!

I wish you luck.

Mark

[Scott C.]

Probably the best course of action would be to contact Detlev, have him view this thread, then agree to send the badge back to him for a refund of your original purchase price. Otherwise, you've got yourself a $50 paperweight.

Scott

[Jimmy]

Retired Pilots Badge

As i mentioned to Mr. Miller in a previous private message.

I did not purchase the badge from Detlev. On a trip to Hamburg a few years ago I showed the badge to Detlev and then paid to have the Expertise of Authenticity done. Which he did and mailed me at a latter date, complete with weight, measurement and pictures.

Now it has been declared a fake because no one here has ever seen that Junckers stamp on an authentic badge. Also there were three at a MAX show along with at least three Oak leaves with swords and diamonds which you don't see often but are authentic. That is what the MAX is all about finding things in multiples that you don't often find.

Sorry if I sound offended but I am. It may very well be a fake but at this point I trust the expertise more than anything else. No offense meant. I am just beginning to sell a 40 year collection and I realize probably have bought many fakes but this one I have always believed in so I feel like my bubble has been burst.

Sorry for the outburst, JImmy

[rhudspith]

Hi Jimmy,

Perhaps it may be worthwhile contacting Detlev again to double check. Maybe at the time he considered it an original badge with a postwar mark applied.

[ben bijker]

Well, that would be good news.

When I brought mine for autentication a few years back, it was immediately written off as fake .
My badge is exactly the same....

Reagrds,
Ben

[Jimmy]

HERE IS THE CoA FROM DETLEV

Since Frank Heukemes never responded on the forum or to me about the CoA I sent him. I have been asked to post it. Here it is.

[Frank Heukemes]

Since Frank Heukemes never responded on the forum or to me about the CoA I sent him.

Why should I answer you on the expertise? I do not evaluate expertises. I let you know that the ITEM is dubious, that is all I can do.

[Darrell]

I guess the proper initials are CoA sorry for COE I don't know where I got that from.

COA = Certificate of Authenticity = an item Detlev owns and has sold.

EOA = Expertise of Authenticity = an item that Detlev doesnt own but appraises for a fee.

Just thought I'd clear that up

[Jimmy]

Expertise of Authenticity

I know the difference between a EoA and a CoA and I had explained earlier, It was my badge that I took to Detlev in Hamburg.

It is still a doucment from Detlev Niemann and it sttill says

"The Described And Pictured Piece Is An Original Example Of This Order"

"This Document Represents A Lifetime Guarantee On the Above Detail"

Now! Who do I believe?

Jimmy

[Darrell]

I know the difference between a EoA and a CoA and I had explained earlier, It was my badge that I took to Detlev in Hamburg.

It is still a doucment from Detlev Niemann and it sttill says

"The Described And Pictured Piece Is An Original Example Of This Order"

"This Document Represents A Lifetime Guarantee On the Above Detail"

Now! Who do I believe?

Jimmy

Jimmy,

How long ago did you get this done? New evidence is discovered daily that ok's or nix'es pieces deemed to be Original.

[Jeff V]

Tombak examples of this badge are VERY rare. With the going rates IF an original can be found out of this world, I'm sure Detlev, since he believes in this badge,should have no problems giving you the 2000.00 euros you want. Rest assured, the badge is a fake.
best wishes,
jeff

[fknorr]

Why should I answer you on the expertise? I do not evaluate expertises. I let you know that the ITEM is dubious, that is all I can do.

Everyone was asking to see the expertise, he sent it to you. He was trying not to break forum protocol.

I sent a copy of that (the CoA) to Frank Heukemes because he is a "moderator" official? And I did not know the protocol for posting a document such as this.

[Jeff V]

Who cares about that expertise anyway. Detlev has an opinion, the same as everyone else, except he charges people to put his on paper. He makes plenty of mistakes. Sometimes I wonder if people are collecting expertises or badges. Learn what you are buying and that piece of paper will hold a lot less importance. Just my opinion.
best wishes,
jeff

[Darrell]

Who cares about that expertise anyway. Detlev has an opinion, the same as everyone else, except he charges people to put his on paper. He makes plenty of mistakes. Sometimes I wonder if people are collecting expertises or badges. Learn what you are buying and that piece of paper will hold a lot less importance. Just my opinion.
best wishes,
jeff

Well if the expertise was done before a known fake was uncovered, it's not really a mistake is it? Times change, as do the uncovering of new discoveries each and every day. If it was done 5 years ago, it may not have been a "mistake" back then.

Not to bring a taboo subject to light, but anyone with a Rounder RK expertise even 6 months ago would be in better shape than they are today

[rhudspith]

As Darrell says

"Well if the expertise was done before a known fake was uncovered, it's not really a mistake is it? Times change, as do the uncovering of new discoveries each and every day. If it was done 5 years ago, it may not have been a "mistake" back then"

Perhaps you should contact Detlev again to see if he still supports the same view